Should We Take Pages from St. Francis De Sales?

[peregrinus_WA]

From my blog:

Should We Take Pages from St. Francis De Sales?

And I mean Literally.

While on retreat this weekend, I started reading Catholic Controversy: St. Francis De Sales Defense of the Faith.and what I have read so far, I have found intriguing.

For those who do not know, St. Francis volunteered to re-evangelize the Chablais region of France that converted to mostly to Calvinism after the Protestant Revolt. In his first attempt he failed. He then resorted to writing pamphlets (tracts) which he would distributed in various ways. This was successful and within four years, almost the whole region came back to Catholicism.

The book is a collection of those pamphlets and I can see how they can directly be used today for the evangelization of non-Catholic Christians (our wayward brethren).

Has anyone else read this book and what do they think of the idea?

 

[mommyof4]

From my blog:
Has anyone else read this book and what do they think of the idea?

Never read it. What is so controversial about it?

 

[peregrinus_WA]

Never read it. What is so controversial about it?

That was the just the name of the book the publisher gave it. It was based on the French Title of the same book.

It is not a book by St. Francis in the literal sense, but a collection of his pamphlets.

 

[aimee]

That was the just the name of the book the publisher gave it. It was based on the French Title of the same book.

It is not a book by St. Francis in the literal sense, but a collection of his pamphlets.

Hi there PF

I like StFrancis De Sales…book sounds interesting…

did you know he was an incorruptible?

 

[Shin]

Now is it not reasonable that no private individual should attribute to himself this infallible judgment on the interpretation or explanation of the Holy Word? -otherwise, where should we be? Who would be willing to submit to the yoke of a private individual? Why of one rather than of another? Let him talk as much as he will of analogy, of enthusiasm, of the Lord, of the Spirit,-all this shall never so bind my understanding as that, if I must sail at hazard, I will not jump into the vessel of my own judgment, rather than that of another, let him talk Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Tartar, Moorish, and whatever you like. If we are to run the risk of erring, who would not choose to run it rather by following his own fancy, than by slavishly following that of Calvin or Luther? Everybody shall give liberty to his wits to run promiscuously about amongst opinions the most diverse possible; and, indeed, he will perhaps light on truth as soon as another will. But it is impious to believe that Our Lord has not left us some supreme judge on earth to whom we can address ourselves in our difficulties, and who is so infallible in his judgments that we cannot err.

I maintain that this judge is no other than the Church Catholic, which can in no way err in the interpretations and conclusions she makes with regard to the Holy Scripture, nor in the decisions she gives concerning the difficulties which are found therein. For who has ever heard this doubted of?

All that our adversaries can say is that this infallibility is only true of the invisible Church. But they arrive at this their opinion of the invisibility of the Church by two roads; for some say it is invisible because it consists only of persons elect and predestinate: the others attribute this invisibility to the rareness and scattering of the believers and faithful. Of these the first consider the Church to be invisible at all times, the others say that this invisibility has lasted about a thousand years, more or less; that is, from S. Gregory to Luther, during which time the papal authority was peaceably established among Christians for they say that during this time there were some true Christians in secret, who did not manifest their intentions, and were satisfied with thus serving God in concealment. This theology is imagination and guesswork; so that others have preferred to say, that during those thousand years the Church was neither visible nor invisible, but altogether effaced and suffocated by impiety and idolatry. Permit me, I beseech you, to say the truth freely; all these words are the incoherencies of fever, they are but dreams had while awake, and not worth the dream Nabuchodonosor had while asleep. And they are entirely contrary to it if we believe Daniel’s interpretation (Dan. ii); for Nabuchodonosor saw a stone cut out of a mountain without hands which went rolling till it overthrew the great statue, and so increased that having become a mountain it filled the whole earth: this Daniel understood of the Kingdom of Our Lord, which shall last for ever. If it be as a mountain, and a mountain so large as to fill the whole earth, how shall it be invisible or secret? And if it last forever, how shall it have failed a thousand years? And it is certainly of the Kingdom of the Church militant that this passage is to be understood; for that of the triumphant will fill heaven, not earth only, and will not arise during the time of the other Kingdoms, as Daniel’s interpretation says, but after the consummation of the world. Add to this that to be cut from the mountain without hands, belongs to the temporal generation of Our Lord, according to which he has been conceived in the womb of the Virgin, and engendered of her own substance without work of man, by the sole benediction of the Holy Ghost. Either then Daniel has badly prophesied, or the adversaries of the Catholic Church have done so when they have said the Church was invisible, hidden and destroyed. In God’s name have patience; we will go in order and briefly, while showing the vanity of those opinions. But we must, before all things, say what the Church is.

---

Here’s a sample.

 

[Cathhsmom]

I have this book and have read part of it. I really enjoy it. The only thing that threw me in the beginning is that the numbering of the Bible verses and books are different, ie. 1, 2, 3, & 4 Kings instead of 1 & 2 Samuel and 1 & 2 Kings, also using roman numerals for the chapter and regular numbers for the verses. Once I got used to that, I was ok.

I still have more to read on it though. So, I, too, am interested in hearing what others have to say about it.

 

[Sir_Anthony]

awesome book, depending on translation can be difficult to read as they have tendency to use King James English for texts around that time period. Good defense against the Calvinists then and now

 

[peregrinus_WA]

awesome book, depending on translation can be difficult to read as they have tendency to use King James English for texts around that time period. Good defense against the Calvinists then and now

Not only Calvinists. I think it could be tweaked to be used against most non-Catholic Christian groups.

 

[Sir_Anthony]

Not only Calvinists. I think it could be tweaked to be used against any no-Catholic group.

well, yes it could, but it is best against the Calvinists as that was the Church De Sales went after. And maybe because it was from this book, but I find Calvinists to be the easiest of the Protestant sects to refute.

 

[Fidelis]

Never read it. What is so controversial about it?

“Controversy” was the old name for what we now call “apologetics.” A “Controversialist” was an apologist.

Do a ‘Search’ on the Catholic Answers main page and you’ll find some examples.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

“Controversy” was the old name for what we now call “apologetics.” A “Controversialist” was an apologist.

Do a ‘Search’ on the Catholic Answers main page and you’ll find some examples.

Thanks for the history lesson

 

[Sheeniac]

I think it’s a great book, and was even considering using some of his arguments as a basis for a few essays.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

One problem I see is that the average person these days has the attention span of a brain dead amoeba. Yes, I know, amoebas do not have brains, but it does illustrate show short their attention span is.

 

[Scott_R_Wilkins]

Speaking as a former Calvinist who has since converted (and has chosen St. Francis de Sales as his patron) I recommend this Doctor of the Church to anyone and everyone. His straight-forward, pragmatic approach is very encouraging and his passion, tempered by humility, is contagious. I HIGHLY recommend his books “Finding God’s Will for You” and, especially, “Introduction to the Devout Life.” I’ve often thought that his use of pamphlets and essays is analogous to our use of digital media today (particularly forums such as this).

St. Francis de Sales, ora pro nobis!

 

[peregrinus_WA]

Speaking as a former Calvinist who has since converted (and has chosen St. Francis de Sales as his patron) I recommend this Doctor of the Church to anyone and everyone. His straight-forward, pragmatic approach is very encouraging and his passion, tempered by humility, is contagious. I HIGHLY recommend his books “Finding God’s Will for You” and, especially, “Introduction to the Devout Life.” I’ve often thought that his use of pamphlets and essays is analogous to our use of digital media today (particularly forums such as this).

St. Francis de Sales, ora pro nobis!

Thanks for the testimony. I have “Introduction to the Devout Life” and put “Finding God’s Will for You” on my shopping list.