Shouldn't it all be uniform?

[childofmary1143]

In the Rubrics of the Novus Ordo Mass, the local Ordinary and not the Holy See can decide when the people should be standing, kneeling or sitting.

IMHO I think this should change and make it uniform throughout the whole Roman (Latin) Rite.

It’s my understanding that its uniform for the TLM.

 

[TraditionalCath]

In the Rubrics of the Novus Ordo Mass, the local Ordinary and not the Holy See can decide when the people should be standing, kneeling or sitting.

IMHO I think this should change and make it uniform throughout the whole Roman (Latin) Rite.

It’s my understanding that its uniform for the TLM.

what about those who are disabled and can only stand or kneel or sit for short periods of time? not everyone can sit or stand or kneel for a
period of time.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

In the Rubrics of the Novus Ordo Mass, the local Ordinary and not the Holy See can decide when the people should be standing, kneeling or sitting.

IMHO I think this should change and make it uniform throughout the whole Roman (Latin) Rite.

It’s my understanding that its uniform for the TLM.

But the GIRM only gives Bishops very limited authroity and allows them to specify standing or kneeling during the time between the Lamb of God and their return from Holy Communion. Everything else is fixed, kneeling from the Sanctus (Holy , Holy , Holy) to the Great Amen. Except for the short time after returning from Holy Communion when each person can decide if they wish to stand, sit or kneel to the final prayers and blessing.

 

[Brenda_V]

In the Rubrics of the Novus Ordo Mass, the local Ordinary and not the Holy See can decide when the people should be standing, kneeling or sitting.

IMHO I think this should change and make it uniform throughout the whole Roman (Latin) Rite.

It’s my understanding that its uniform for the TLM.

what about those who are disabled and can only stand or kneel or sit for short periods of time? not everyone can sit or stand or kneel for a
period of time.

If someone is disabled and cannot kneel, stand or sit then by their disability they are exempt from these postures. They have always been exempt. So if we can let us keep this discussion to one about those who are able bodied with the unspoken understanding that those who are not (able bodied) are exempt from these postures.

I tend to agree with the OP, why can’t we keep the postures uniform in every Diocese. It seems that mine chooses the kneel until you go to Communion and your choice of sit/stand/kneel for your prayers of Thanksgiving after Communion (the majority in front of me at least, kneel after Communion). It is confusing when I attend Mass in a different Diocese. Thankfully no one has ever said anything to me about my own posture which tends to be what I do in my home Parish.

Brenda V.

 

[tee_eff_em]

It’s my understanding that its uniform for the TLM.

I am not sure that was ever the case, but I could easily be mistaken.

Perhaps the Holy See should cease indulging the US by allowing the Episcopal Conference to call for kneeling from the *Sanctus *to the end of the Eucharistic Prayer, and before Communion when the priest says Ecce Agnus Dei?

tee

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

If someone is disabled and cannot kneel, stand or sit then by their disability they are exempt from these postures. They have always been exempt. So if we can let us keep this discussion to one about those who are able bodied with the unspoken understanding that those who are not (able bodied) are exempt from these postures.

I tend to agree with the OP, why can’t we keep the postures uniform in every Diocese. It seems that mine chooses the kneel until you go to Communion and your choice of sit/stand/kneel for your prayers of Thanksgiving after Communion (the majority in front of me at least, kneel after Communion). It is confusing when I attend Mass in a different Diocese. Thankfully no one has ever said anything to me about my own posture which tends to be what I do in my home Parish.

Brenda V.

I travel some to different diocese and parishes even within the same diocese. I stand, sit and kneel not caring if anyone else does for those places in the Mass where it is specified to stand, sit or kneel. I then carefully watch what the majority of others do for the specific place where posture can be defined by the Bishop. I chose to kneel upon returning from Holy Communion.

 

[SMHW]

Why does it matter?

 

[childofmary1143]

But the GIRM only gives Bishops very limited authroity and allows them to specify standing or kneeling during the time between the Lamb of God and their return from Holy Communion. Everything else is fixed, kneeling from the Sanctus (Holy , Holy , Holy) to the Great Amen. Except for the short time after returning from Holy Communion when each person can decide if they wish to stand, sit or kneel to the final prayers and blessing.

I didn’t know that as in my Diocese (Moncton NB, Canada) they stand after the Memorial Acclamation straight through. In some parishes in this diocese the people will stand throughout the ENTIRE consecration at the strong urging of the Priests.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

I guess it is possible there are parishes without kneelers. I’m always careful about blanket rules. It would seem if it is necessary per the bishop to change things, he would know what he is doing.

 

[tee_eff_em]

But the GIRM only gives Bishops very limited authroity and allows them to specify standing or kneeling during the time between the Lamb of God and their return from Holy Communion. Everything else is fixed, kneeling from the Sanctus (Holy , Holy , Holy) to the Great Amen. Except for the short time after returning from Holy Communion when each person can decide if they wish to stand, sit or kneel to the final prayers and blessing.

I didn’t know that as in my Diocese (Moncton NB, Canada) they stand after the Memorial Acclamation straight through. In some parishes in this diocese the people will stand throughout the ENTIRE consecration at the strong urging of the Priests.

With due respect, [user]Br. Rich SFO[/user] is not quite correct. What is fixed are:
Stand: From the entrance chant to the end of the Collect; from the *Alleluja *through the Gospel; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayers of the Faithful; from the *Orate Fratres *onward, except:

Sit: During the readings before the Gospel and the Responsorial Psalm; during the Homily; during the Offertory and the Preparation of the Gifts; the faithful may sit during the Sacred Silence following Communion.

Kneel: During the Consecration (except when prevented by health, large numbers of people, lack of space, or some other good reason).

The US (and, I believe, but am not sure: Canada) are among the many places that take advantage of an indult to kneel in variance of the above norms: *“Ubi mos est, populum ab acclamatione Sanctus expleta usque ad finem Precis eucharisticae et ante Communionem quando sacerdos dicit Ecce Agnus Dei genuflexum manere, hic laudabiliter retinetur.” *(off the cuff translation) “Where it is the custom for the people to remain kneeling from the *Sanctus *to the end of the Eucharistic Prayer, and before Communion when the priest says Ecce Agnus Dei, this may be laudibly retained.”

tee

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I guess it is possible there are parishes without kneelers. I’m always careful about blanket rules. It would seem if it is necessary per the bishop to change things, he would know what he is doing.

Having kneelers or not does not change the instruction requiring people to kneel. Canada may be different but I doubt it.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

With due respect, [user]Br. Rich SFO[/user] is not quite correct. What is fixed are:
Stand: From the entrance chant to the end of the Collect; from the *Alleluja *through the Gospel; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayers of the Faithful; from the *Orate Fratres *onward, except:

Sit: During the readings before the Gospel and the Responsorial Psalm; during the Homily; during the Offertory and the Preparation of the Gifts; the faithful may sit during the Sacred Silence following Communion.

Kneel: During the Consecration (except when prevented by health, large numbers of people, lack of space, or some other good reason).

The US (and, I believe, but am not sure: Canada) are among the many places that take advantage of an indult to kneel in variance of the above norms: "Ubi mos est, populum ab acclamatione Sanctus expleta usque ad finem Precis eucharisticae et ante Communionem quando sacerdos dicit Ecce Agnus Dei genuflexum manere, hic laudabiliter retinetur." (off the cuff translation) “Where it is the custom for the people to remain kneeling from the *Sanctus *to the end of the Eucharistic Prayer, and before Communion when the priest says Ecce Agnus Dei, this may be laudibly retained.”

tee

That’s not at variance with what I said? Is not the Agnus Dei right after the Great Amen? I’ll have to look at the ordinary of the Mass I can’t do it in my head right now. Stand for the Lord’s Prayer, Sign of Peace and Agnus Dei, then kneel again unless instructed by the local Bishop to remain standing.

 

[tee_eff_em]

That’s not at variance with what I said? Is not the Agnus Dei right after the Great Amen? I’ll have to look at the ordinary of the Mass I can’t do it in my head right now. Stand for the Lord’s Prayer, Sign of Peace and Agnus Dei, then kneel again unless instructed by the local Bishop to remain standing.

My understanding is that the Consecration is the first half of the Eucharistic Prayer only (up to the Mysterium Fidei) – It is only by indult that the USCCB (at least) retained kneeling for the second half.

But I welcome correction if I am misinformed.

tee

 

[KathleenElsie]

I guess it is possible there are parishes without kneelers. I’m always careful about blanket rules. It would seem if it is necessary per the bishop to change things, he would know what he is doing.

Yes there are places that Mass is celebrated that have no kneelers. Yet many of us kneel anyway .

 

[childofmary1143]

Some church’s in my diocese have had kneeler’s removed.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Some church’s in my diocese have had kneeler’s removed.

Same here and we still kneel. LOL it can be hard on the old bones. But we feel led to do so. Till I can no longer get down or up I will continue to kneel.