Shouldn't martyrdom end the properity Gospel?

[johnnyjones]

One might not think of Nicodemus as being a martyr but he was, along with many, many others. Is it fair to say they prayed before some of their gruesome deaths? I don’t see why they wouldn’t have. They still were horribly tortured, suffered for prolonged periods and died.
Being human some of their horrible executions must have produced extreme fear. The point is they prayed and the outcome remained the same.

Some of these people literally walked with Jesus. Some teach that the Christian life is about prosperity, in the material sense. Or, if you pray hard enough you will get something. Jesus prayed and sweated drops of blood. He was still crucified. Based on martydom alone it is clear Christianity is about self sacrifice, carrying your cross. Does God fix flat tires in the dead of night in a bad neighborhood? Save the child who is snatched up? Praying is about changing yourself it seems to me. Sometimes it just seems wrong to be praying for some seemingly trivial earthly thing when the lives that lived harshly for Christ exceeds any problem I could have in comparison. What do you think?

 

[GEddie]

You assume that everybody who is martyred prays for physical deliverance. Often, that is not the case, as many of them were at peace with their death, or so anxious to enter Heaven that they would not have asked that their life be spared.

Saint Thomas More could have saved his (literal) neck, by obeying the King rather than the Church. Having chosen not to do so, and knowing that this would lead to martyrdom, I doubt that he prayed to be spared.

While beheading is a particularly hideous death, which Saint Paul was able to foresee, nothing in his NT writings suggested that he ever prayed for his own rescue from martyrdom, although he prayed for everybody else.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Iotaunum]

Prosperity theology was developed by protestants and gained influence in certain circles in the 60’s. It is abhorrent to Catholic theology and contrary to the Gospel. The same God who said;

“*Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you.” *also said:

Matt 10:38 - “And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.”

Bottom line: Expect suffering in this life - especialy when you stand for good and truth. How often are people who are of good morals in these times ridiculed by their peers? Often when you stand up for the truth you will be ridiculed because this world of full of liars.

If someone is innocent this corrupt world will laugh at them and mock them. I often wonder if some of the Catholics so-called who go to Mass every week, and yet go out looking like “ladies of the street” or those who claim to be Catholic and yet live openly in mortal sin would feel of they were confronted by any of the saints they pray to. Imagine if St Francis, St Anthony, St Peter, St Therese (or any other saint) came back today and told women to stop wearing shorter skirts and men to stop living openly in sin - they would ridicule these very saints they pray to.

So there is somewhat of a “health and wealth” mentality among a lot of people today. They care nothing for the saints’ holy lives and advice, rather they make novenas when they need a job, their car is broken or they want some other object to fulfill their passions. How they cannot see the contradiction is beyond me.

That being said, God will never let down anyone who has faith in Him and lives according to His will. As Christ said, even the birds of the air are fed - why would God neglect one who does His will? Parallel with this is also the fact that ultimately, God knows best. If God permits one to suffer who is faithful to Him, then it is for their own good. How many saints have died in agony and suffering so that they had to do no purgatory when they died, but went to God in paradise for all eternity. God knows what is best for us more than we do. God has used various illnesses and accidents to take away pride which may have resulted in eternal damnation.

I believe generally God has made the world operate according to laws and He does not too often intervene. So when someone says to me: “My son/daughter was run over by a bus - God wanted them in heaven early” - I can’t help but think; “No, they walked out in front of a speeding bus - God lets His laws operate normally” Would God really want to kill someone by surprise who is in mortal sin without the chance of confessing and ammending their life? Surely not, and certainly not because He can’t wait to see them in Heaven. I think this “prosperity gospel” applies here also to these sort of people who think God is doing everything becuase they are good and deserve it.

Anyway- probably a bit off topic but when I start thinking about anoying things people have said I get carried away.

 

[johnnyjones]

Thats true that many martyers probably didn’t pray to be delivered. However I will never know the entirety of that. My point could be rephrased as, if they lived for Christ at a “higher level” than you or I (after all they gave their lives) how could I expect the “little things” to be answered? It’s just something I ponder.