Shun lapsed believers?

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Does the bible teach that we are to shun lapsed believers? What does the Church say about this?

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

From the (NIV)
 
Pete said:
Does the bible teach that we are to shun lapsed believers? What does the Church say about this?

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

From the (NIV)
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Well, St. Paul was telling the Corinthians to stay away from those randy Greeks who were calling themselves believers. As to whether that’s a marching order that extends into eternity, I don’t think one can make that leap. For to do so would mean one could never evangelize the sinner. One has to look at the context and time the scripture was written as well as the audience St. Paul was speaking to.
 
It is appropriate to evangelize, but at some point you have to do so like St. Francis said and no longer use words, or leave them to themselves and do penance for them. As well, those who with their lips profess to be Catholic yet scandalize the faith in their deeds, should be in some sense “shunned” or whatever word you want to use. They should not be recognized as practicing Catholics because they are not.
 
The point of this instruction is to avoid scandal by giving the impression that such a lifestyle is consonant with Christian discipleship.

A modern application might be to avoid inviting “Catholics for Choice” over to the parish hall for a banquet, for example.
 
Genesis315 said:
The point of this instruction is to avoid scandal by giving the impression that such a lifestyle is consonant with Christian discipleship.

A modern application might be to avoid inviting “Catholics for Choice” over to the parish hall for a banquet, for example.
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Good analogy. Another might be one might invite Sam Brownback to speak at one’s parish, but would never invite Nancy Pelosi.
 
Pete said:
Does the bible teach that we are to shun lapsed believers? What does the Church say about this?

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

From the (NIV)
Click to expand...
It depends on what you mean by lapsed believers. A lapsed Catholic may be living a holy life in a Protestant community and thus be acceptable to fellowship with.

My point is that not all the lapsed are unrepentant sinners and should not be treated as such.
 
Pete said:
Does the bible teach that we are to shun lapsed believers? What does the Church say about this?

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

From the (NIV)
Click to expand...
This verse needs to be put in its context; i.e., the verses that come before and after.
1 Cor 5:9-13
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9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner – not even to eat with such a person.
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12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” (NKJV)
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Paul taught two things here. 1) Immoral people who call themselves Christians are to be shunned, put away, etc. 2) This does not mean not associating ourselves with immoral people of the world; otherwise we would have to completely shut ourselves away (like hermits and residents of monasteries, but that’s another thread).

DaveBj
 
DaveBj said:
This verse needs to be put in its context; i.e., the verses that come before and after.

Paul taught two things here. 1) Immoral people who call themselves Christians are to be shunned, put away, etc. 2) This does not mean not associating ourselves with immoral people of the world; otherwise we would have to completely shut ourselves away (like hermits and residents of monasteries, but that’s another thread).

DaveBj
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Are you sure that your interpretation is correct?
 
“No damage must be done to the harmony between faith and life: the unity of the Church is damaged not only by Christians who reject or distort the truths of faith but also by those who disregard the moral obligations to which they are called by the Gospel (cf. 1 Cor 5:9-13). The Apostles decisively rejected any separation between the commitment of the heart and the actions which express or prove it (cf. 1 Jn 2:3-6). And ever since Apostolic times the Church’s Pastors have unambiguously condemned the behaviour of those who fostered division by their teaching or by their actions.” - Pope John Paul II; Veritatis Splendor

“Still it is quite true that there are circumstances under which a Christian is bound openly to express his opinion on religious subjects and matters; and this is the real difficulty, viz. how to do so without display. As a man’s place in society is here or there, so it is more or less his duty to speak his mind freely. We must never countenance sin and error. Now the more obvious and modest way of discountenancing evil is by silence, and by separating from it; for example, we are bound to keep aloof from deliberate and open sinners. St. Paul expressly tells us, ‘not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother (i.e. a Christian) be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one, no not to eat.’ [1 Cor. v. 11.] And St. John gives us the like advice with respect to heretics. ‘If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine (i.e. the true doctrine of Christ), receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed; for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.’ [2 John 10, 11.] It is plain that such conduct on our part requires no great display, for it is but conforming to the rules of the Church; though it is often difficult to know on what occasions we ought to adopt it, which is another question.” - John Henry Newman; Parochial and Plain Sermons

Personally, I would disassociate myself from such people but leave open the possibility of evangelization.
 
John_Joseph said:
“No damage must be done to the harmony between faith and life: the unity of the Church is damaged not only by Christians who reject or distort the truths of faith but also by those who disregard the moral obligations to which they are called by the Gospel (cf. 1 Cor 5:9-13). The Apostles decisively rejected any separation between the commitment of the heart and the actions which express or prove it (cf. 1 Jn 2:3-6). And ever since Apostolic times the Church’s Pastors have unambiguously condemned the behaviour of those who fostered division by their teaching or by their actions.” - Pope John Paul II; Veritatis Splendor

“Still it is quite true that there are circumstances under which a Christian is bound openly to express his opinion on religious subjects and matters; and this is the real difficulty, viz. how to do so without display. As a man’s place in society is here or there, so it is more or less his duty to speak his mind freely. We must never countenance sin and error. Now the more obvious and modest way of discountenancing evil is by silence, and by separating from it; for example, we are bound to keep aloof from deliberate and open sinners. St. Paul expressly tells us, ‘not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother (i.e. a Christian) be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one, no not to eat.’ [1 Cor. v. 11.] And St. John gives us the like advice with respect to heretics. ‘If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine (i.e. the true doctrine of Christ), receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed; for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.’ [2 John 10, 11.] It is plain that such conduct on our part requires no great display, for it is but conforming to the rules of the Church; though it is often difficult to know on what occasions we ought to adopt it, which is another question.” - John Henry Newman; Parochial and Plain Sermons

Personally, I would disassociate myself from such people but leave open the possibility of evangelization.
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Thanks, any further help, in which situation do I adopt the rule.
 
Pete said:
That Paul is insturcting *us *to shun lapsed believers.
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Not exactly. But v. 11 is pretty clear, in the plain meaning of the text, that believers are to shun people who claim to be believers (“brothers”), but are living in open sin. I’ve read some interpretations that ordering believers not even to eat with them had reference to the Eucharist.

DaveBj
 
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