Sign of Peace- Move it?

[CDNowak]

Move it (Ambrosian Rite ~ offertory seems the best option) or lose it ( the peace shared among the people that is).

 

[Katrina5]

I went to a different mass last fall (I usually go to the Sunday am) and I sat in my usual place. I was almost knocked down by two people who were trying to get to each other, passing me up as they did so.

It was hardly peaceful, and they hugged and talked for a moment. I never did get a sign of peace from anyone.

I REALLY wish the hand holding during the Our Father would go away. Some folks loop around the rows and face backwards.

But we have bigger problems now with our new “pastor”. He moved the chairs in the sanctuary, put the altar boys into bathrobe-y looking albs, and got rid of the bells at the consecration.

 

[trish2009]

And the same disruption could happen no matter where you would want the sign of peace to happen. What you describe is what happens at a lot of parishes that take liberties with all parts of the mass. The priest could address the problem, but most of the time the “disruptions” seem to actually be encouraged by the priest or he just doesn’t care to correct the situation.

My husband and I never offer the Sign of Peace, not because we are not friendly, but because of where it is in the Mass. It is my understanding that right after the Consecration Jesus Christ is truly present on the altar. If we could see Jesus actually standing there, would we be so anxious to turn our backs on Him to wish each other peace? I truly believe that if we could actually see Jesus there, we would fall to our knees in adoration and humility and our neighbors would fall to their knees also. He deserves our full attention. I don’t stand for the Our Father, I remain on my knees during the Consecration and Communion until the Sacred Host is put back in the Tabernacle. This was the norm for hundreds of years and I can’t see any reason for the change other than to take our attention from Jesus and put it on the community.

 

[trish2009]

My apologies. In my earlier post I should have pointed out at that my parish, Father actually leaves the sanctuary (and the Lord unattended!) to wander around and shake hands with people during the Sign of Peace. It’s the just an abrupt and awkward segue to the then reverent fraction rite and Agnus Dei.

I agree. During the Latin Mass (for hundreds of years) the priests offered each other the sign of peace and the lay people were on their knees for the Consecration and the Agnus Dei. I don’t think we should be standing for the Our Father or the Agnus Dei. Aren’t we asking the Lord to have mercy on us and grant us peace? Shouldn’t we be on our knees while we do this? Isn’t Jesus more important than the stranger standing next to us? I’m totally disgusted with it.

 

[trish2009]

I would prefer it moved. After consecration I never like to take my eyes off of the host or chalice because our God is truly present there and it is so truly awesome that I feel terrible if I have to look away. So, during the Peace, I always feel guilted into looking away to respond to the flood of distracting “peace be with you”'s that come my way. I am glad that people want to share peace with each other but, it would be better somewhere else during the mass because at that moment, no amount of peace a fellow parishioner can give me can ever amount to the peace I feel with just one glimpse of the Sacred Host. I also don’t like that so many people, without thinking I believe, turn their backs on Jesus on the altar to share peace. I can understand turning to a neighbor but, turning you back on Him just rubs me the wrong way (and running across the aisle too). To any of you who might suggest that I just ignore them and just continue to admire Our Lord in the Most Blessed Sacrament, I would feel bad about ignoring someone, especially in the presence of The Lord. It feels unchristian and rude. Also, did you know that since we are all one in the Mystical Body of Christ that by sharing peace with one person, you share it with all? So, the sharing of peace could be so much nicer for me, if we are never going to relocate it, by everyone sharing peace with just one person. That is all that you need to do

Do I sound like a jerk for posting this? I hope not. I just really treasure the little bit of time I get to be so near the Lord. There is so much other time, better time, for meeting with each other. You know?

Don’t force yourself to offer the Sign of Peace. I feel the same way you do and my husband and I continue to kneel after the Consecration while Jesus is truly present on the altar and we do not offer the Sign of Peace. We do not stand for the Our Father and continue to kneel through the Agnus Dei and Communion. I would rather risk a stranger standing next to me thinking I’m rude, then risk Jesus thinking I’m rude.

Over the years we have met several holy, very traditional priests who have advised us that it is perfectly alright to ignore the Sign of Peace, as well as to continue to receive Communion on the tongue while kneeling. We try to sit in the first pew because the priest comes down from the altar and gives Communion to anyone kneeling in the first pew (usually us elderly folks).

 

[elgar]

I agree. During the Latin Mass (for hundreds of years) the priests offered each other the sign of peace and the lay people were on their knees for the Consecration and the Agnus Dei. I don’t think we should be standing for the Our Father or the Agnus Dei. Aren’t we asking the Lord to have mercy on us and grant us peace? Shouldn’t we be on our knees while we do this? Isn’t Jesus more important than the stranger standing next to us? I’m totally disgusted with it.

How interesting as a Protestant (Anglican), we kneel during the Lord’s Prayer, Agnus Dei and at the Communion rail. The exchange of Peace takes place after the confession right before the Offertory. It sometimes becomes mayhem but at least it is placed in a less sensitive time in the mass.

We also love our Sanctus bells.

 

[trish2009]

This thread rests on sand. What are you doing? “I think it’s okay”; “I think it could change”; who do we think we are to be talking this way?

Our role as the latest incarnation of the Church Militant is to receive the traditions of the Church from our forebears and hand them down, intact, to our descendants (cf. 2 Thess 2:15). By what right do we disinherit them because we have an idea? It seems staggeringly arrogant to start thinking of ourselves as liturgical mechanics, qualified to tinker with this, to tinker with that, limited only by whether we think it’s a good idea or not, to think in terms of “we can fix the Mass,” for no better reason than because we have—what? An idea? A conceited sense that we know better than the last generation?

How much trouble could have been avoided with a little humility on the part of the consilium! How much trouble begins with a well-intentioned idea!

For hundreds of years the sign of peace was offered by the priest. There was no handshaking for the people. How arrogant was the Periti at Vatican II to change the entire Mass because they had an idea. Their idea was to protestanize the Mass and reduce the importance of Christ while making the people the most important. Hence the “community”, the “table” rather than the altar, the “sharing of a meal” rather than a Holy Sacrifice. The changes in the Mass were made so as to “not offend any Protestant”. Wake up! The Protestants can now walk into a Catholic church and not see or hear anything different than what they are used to in their own churches.

 

[japhy]

If we could see Jesus actually standing there, would we be so anxious to turn our backs on Him to wish each other peace?

Would you have people walk backwards after receiving Holy Communion as well, so as not to turn your back on Christ?

I don’t stand for the Our Father, I remain on my knees during the Consecration and Communion until the Sacred Host is put back in the Tabernacle.

In the Ordinary Form, the proper posture is to stand after the Eucharistic Prayer.

During the Latin Mass (for hundreds of years) the priests offered each other the sign of peace…

So were these priests being rude to Christ in the Blessed Sacrament by doing so?

Isn’t Jesus more important than the stranger standing next to us? I’m totally disgusted with it.

Doesn’t our love for Jesus compel us to show peace to our brothers and sisters in Christ?

I would rather risk a stranger standing next to me thinking I’m rude, then risk Jesus thinking I’m rude.

I think it’s clear from your personal practice that Jesus knows you don’t mean to be rude to Him at all, so why not offer a sign of Christian peace and charity to your brethren?

 

[trish2009]

I know about the Ambrosian rite. Again, I think that at the time most of it was gossip, which helps explain why it hasn’t been done yet. I mean, it might not have been gossip, but we can’t really know for sure if it was or not.

I have heard about this too. If the changes are not introduced into the Mass it will probably be the Bishops being disobedient again and are just ignoring the Pope. I also heard that in the Creed, Pope Benedict also said he wanted the wording to be changed to “I believe” rather than “We believe”, as it is every individual who is expressing their faith. It was also said that “We believe” was theologically incorrect. The Bishops ignored this one too.

 

[trish2009]

Would you have people walk backwards after receiving Holy Communion as well, so as not to turn your back on Christ?

In the Ordinary Form, the proper posture is to stand after the Eucharistic Prayer.

So were these priests being rude to Christ in the Blessed Sacrament by doing so?

Doesn’t our love for Jesus compel us to show peace to our brothers and sisters in Christ?

I think it’s clear from your personal practice that Jesus knows you don’t mean to be rude to Him at all, so why not offer a sign of Christian peace and charity to your brethren?

Because it is at a very inappropriate place in the Mass. Move it to the beginning or the end or practically anywhere else except right after the Consecration.

As I recall, during the old Latin Mass, the only time the people stood for the Our Father was at a High Mass.

 

[MarkThompson]

I have heard about this too. If the changes are not introduced into the Mass it will probably be the Bishops being disobedient again and are just ignoring the Pope. I also heard that in the Creed, Pope Benedict also said he wanted the wording to be changed to “I believe” rather than “We believe”, as it is every individual who is expressing their faith. It was also said that “We believe” was theologically incorrect. The Bishops ignored this one too.

The bishops haven’t “ignored” anything. If you haven’t been following the news, there is a new translation of the English upcoming, but it has not been finalized or published and no timetable has been set for it to be implemented. So there is nothing to “obey” yet. Also, “we believe” is (as you’ll realize, if you stop and think about it for a moment) 100% theologically correct. Not a very good translation of the Latin credo, but definitely correct on a theological level.

My advice to you is to stop thinking the absolute worst of “the bishops” (who are, by the way, the sacramental successors of the Apostles) and adopt a charitable attitude.

 

[The_Reginator]

My husband and I never offer the Sign of Peace, not because we are not friendly, but because of where it is in the Mass. It is my understanding that **right after the Consecration Jesus Christ is truly present on the altar. If we could see Jesus actually standing there, would we be so anxious to turn our backs on Him to wish each other peace? I truly believe that if we could actually see Jesus there, we would fall to our knees in adoration and humility and our neighbors would fall to their knees also. He deserves our full attention. ** I don’t stand for the Our Father, I remain on my knees during the Consecration and Communion until the Sacred Host is put back in the Tabernacle. This was the norm for hundreds of years and I can’t see any reason for the change other than to take our attention from Jesus and put it on the community.

Catholics ought to realize that God Himself is physically present on the altar at this point in the Mass. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

As for standing for the Pater Noster, out of habit I’ve done this for years along with the altarkids and the rest of the congregation. I believe that in the Latin Church this is the usual posture for prayer although I’ve often wondered about standing rather than kneeling when in the presence of the Lord and Creator of the universe.

 

[The_Reginator]

Would you have people walk backwards after receiving Holy Communion as well, so as not to turn your back on Christ?
**At this point we have our just consumed our Lord. Many of us haven’t even swallowed Him yet and the host has not changed its substance. Kneeling would be silly.
**
In the Ordinary Form, the proper posture is to stand after the Eucharistic Prayer.

So were these priests being rude to Christ in the Blessed Sacrament by doing so?
**The traditional form of the priest exchanging the sign of peace with the congregation avoids this.
**
Doesn’t our love for Jesus compel us to show peace to our brothers and sisters in Christ? (This argument really irks me.)
**Of course it does. But to take our focus off our Lord on the altar helps people to forget that He is really, physically there. **

I think it’s clear from your personal practice that Jesus knows you don’t mean to be rude to Him at all, so why not offer a sign of Christian peace and charity to your brethren?
The first commandment is to love God. The second commandment is like it: to love our neighbours. The first commandment remains to LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL ELSE, including anybody else. This is the time to focus our attention on God alone.

 

[ConvertaKat]

Reginator;
I could not have said it any better!
For those of you who bemoan those of us not wanting to be “friendly”, can you for just 10 minutes NOT be the center of attention?

I may be just a convert but even I can see where this whole sign of peace business is a sly ploy to put “the people” ahead of Christ.

 

[japhy]

+JMJ+

Doesn’t our love for Jesus compel us to show peace to our brothers and sisters in Christ?
(This argument really irks me.) Of course it does. But to take our focus off our Lord on the altar helps people to forget that He is really, physically there.

If people forget that Christ is substantially and truly present on the altar after 30 seconds of showing a Sign of Peace to those near them, then the Sign of Peace is not the culprit.

I think it’s clear from your personal practice that Jesus knows you don’t mean to be rude to Him at all, so why not offer a sign of Christian peace and charity to your brethren?
The first commandment is to love God. The second commandment is like it: to love our neighbours. The first commandment remains to LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL ELSE, including anybody else. This is the time to focus our attention on God alone.

But it is impossible to keep those two commandments if you love God exclusively of others. Furthermore, the priest has already spoken to us (Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum) and we have spoken to him (Et cum spiritu tuo), so already between the Consecration and the Communion, our attention has been on someone other than God.

can you for just 10 minutes NOT be the center of attention?

How do you know these people want to be the center of attention? Could you try to find a less egotistical motivation for their position, and take a less hostile approach to asking them about it?

I can see where this whole sign of peace business is a sly ploy to put “the people” ahead of Christ.

Perhaps in some parishes, where the “Sign of Peace” takes several minutes, with people going all over the place, what you say is true. But virtually all the Church’s liturgies have a Rite of Peace in them, and in the Roman Rite, the location for this Rite is after the Consecration and before Communion. It is about communicating the peace of Christ (Who is present on the altar) to those around us. It is not about putting “the people” ahead of Christ, it is about recognizing the peace and unity which comes from us being together in Christ.

It seems like you are both taking a very either-or approach and ignoring the possibility of a both-and. The Sign of Peace, done properly, is not about being distracted from Jesus Christ or putting others ahead of Him; it is about giving a sign of the peace of Christ which you have received to others.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

It is clear that the Sign of Peace will to remain where it is, we will continue to employ lay Eucharistic Ministers and the incessant noise from the choir loft will continue so I moved back to the TLM, it’s an easy solution that more should follow.

 

[legendashmore]

I find the sign of peace distracting.
The Lord Jesus is truly there, he is truly there on the altar. Why are we not spending time in adoration of his most sacred body, on our knees, rather than standing speaking to other people.
The sign of peace doesn’t even need to be there, it takes all of our attention away from the Lord Jesus. It puts all of our attention on the person sitting next to you. Why do we do this? . Shouldn’t we be adoring him? We should be filled with amazement that this has actually happened.

I think the sign of peace is one of the reasons many catholics today, don’t believe in the true presence. If we were to stay on our knees people would realize that he is truly on the altar.

God Bless

 

[The_Reginator]

I find the sign of peace distracting.
The Lord Jesus is truly there, he is truly there on the altar. Why are we not spending time in adoration of his most sacred body, on our knees, rather than standing speaking to other people.
The sign of peace doesn’t even need to be there, it takes all of our attention away from the Lord Jesus. It puts all of our attention on the person sitting next to you. Why do we do this? . Shouldn’t we be adoring him? We should be filled with amazement that this has actually happened.

I think the sign of peace is one of the reasons many catholics today, don’t believe in the true presence. If we were to stay on our knees people would realize that he is truly on the altar.

God Bless

That is my concern as well.
The most reverent OF Masses that I’ve experienced do not really encourage all present to remember that it is GOD HIMSELF that is on the altar and that we have just witnessed a genuine miracle. The whole Mass should be giving glory to God. When I see the casual way that He is handled I wince and say a prayer. (Usually I know that the people making me wince live holier lives than I do. This treatment does nothing to reinforce the belief in the Real Presence for those in doubt though.)