Simon Magus

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jonni
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jonni

Guest
I have found this while searching about the ist Pope. Could Simon Magus of been the 1st pope if simon peter never got to Rome?
I am always finding obsticles in my search for faith and my conversion to the Catholic faith.

Also i found pictures of Popes giving the Hitler salute and one pope signing something with vthe Nazi’s. I’ll add them later.

I hope i am not offending with my questions its just that things get harder with my search 😦
 
I have found this while searching about the ist Pope. Could Simon Magus of been the 1st pope if simon peter never got to Rome?
I am always finding obsticles in my search for faith and my conversion to the Catholic faith.

Also i found pictures of Popes giving the Hitler salute and one pope signing something with vthe Nazi’s. I’ll add them later.

I hope i am not offending with my questions its just that things get harder with my search 😦
If St Peter never got to Rome, his See would be wherever he placed it. Instead of Roman Catholic, it could have been Antiochian Catholic. Christ made St Peter the head of the Church. It makes no difference if St Peter was in Rome or Mozambique.
 
I have found this while searching about the ist Pope. Could Simon Magus of been the 1st pope if simon peter never got to Rome?
I am always finding obsticles in my search for faith and my conversion to the Catholic faith.

Also i found pictures of Popes giving the Hitler salute and one pope signing something with vthe Nazi’s. I’ll add them later.

I hope i am not offending with my questions its just that things get harder with my search 😦
I believe you are mistaken about *popes *giving the hitler salute. There were *bishops *who did so, but no popes.
 
This is what I found in the link I added in the original post.

Simon Peter and Apostolic Succession

One of the pillars that the Rome Catholic Church states that they are the first and true church of Christ that had there beginning from the apostle Peter. They claim that the line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. In its concrete form, apostolic succession is the line of bishops that goes from Rome stretching back to the apostles. All over the world, all Catholic bishops claim to have their lineage of predecessors traced back to the time of the apostles; specifically the apostle Simon Peter who is stated to be the first pope of the Roman Catholic Church. The role of apostolic succession in preserving true doctrine is illustrated in The Bible.

Today, as we look at The Bible and the Roman Catholic Church we can see that there are many differences concerning doctrine. These differences are not a simple misunderstanding but at times appear to be the complete opposite of The Bible. When one studies out the major differences between the Church of Rome and The Bible it is not difficult to see that they have not preserved the doctrine of Christ or The Bible. If anyone were to study such subjects as infant baptism, the mass, Immaculate Conception of Mary, eternal torment in hell, graven images, or the Sunday Sabbath they would not be able to support these ideas from The Bible. In fact, as stated earlier, these doctrines are completely opposite of The Bible. These ideas and practices have their roots in Paganism and Babylonian religions.

Where did the departure of simple Bible truth enter the church? Like any seeker of truth, let’s go back to the beginning to see where these false doctrines came into the church. With the claim of apostolic succession, we’ll go back to the apostle Peter himself and see how the departing of the truth came to be. When we look in The Bible there is no recorded of the apostle ever being in Rome much less being the head of the church. There are countless supposed historical accounts that Peter was in Rome but they all come from Catholic sources and are not first hand accounts. The earliest accounts are of Catholic fathers but even they do not agree with The Bible. So let’s look to The Bible and see why the apostle Peter was never in Rome and couldn’t be the founder of the Roman Catholic Church.

Below are eleven major New Testament proofs, which completely disprove the claim that Peter was in Rome from the time of Claudius until Nero. These biblical points speak for themselves and ANY ONE of them is sufficient to prove the ridiculousness of the Catholic claim. Notice what God tells us! The truth IS conclusive!

PROOF ONE: We should consider Christ’s commission to Peter. This is often very embarrassing to Catholics, because Christ commissioned Peter to become chief minister to the CIRCUMCISED, not to uncircumcised Gentiles.

“The gospel of the CIRCUMCISION was unto Peter; (For He that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)” (Gal. 2:7-8).

Here we have it in the clearest of language. It was Paul, NOT Peter, who was commissioned to be the chief Apostle to the Gentiles. And who was it that wrote the Epistle to the ROMANS? It certainly WASN’T Peter! “And when James, Cephas [Peter], and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace * that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision” (Gal. 2:9). Paul further mentioned his special office as the Gentile Apostle in II Timothy 1:11: “Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.”

PETER is NOWHERE called the Apostle to the Gentiles! This precludes him from going to Rome to become the head of a Gentile community.

PROOF TWO: Paul specifically told the Gentile Romans that HE had been chosen to be their Apostle, not Peter. “I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable” (Rom. 15:16). How clear! Paul had the direct charge from Christ in this matter. He even further relates in Romans 15:18 that it was Christ who had chosen him “to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed.”

PAUL Established the Only TRUE Church at Rome during the apostolic era.

PROOF THREE: We are told by Paul himself that it was he – not Peter –who was going to officially found the Roman Church. “I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established” (Rom. 1:11). Amazing! The Church at Rome had not been ESTABLISHED officially even by 55 or 56 A.D. However, the Catholics would have us believe that Peter had done this some ten years before – in the reign of Claudius. What nonsense! Of course you understand that NEITHER Peter nor Paul established the Catholic Church! But these proofs are given to illustrate that it is utterly impossible for PETER to have been in any way associated with ANY Church at Rome.

PROOF FOUR: We find Paul not only wanting to establish the Church at Rome, but he emphatically tells us that his policy was NEVER to build upon another man’s foundation. “Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, LEST I SHOULD BUILD UPON ANOTHER MAN’S FOUNDATION”(Rom. 15:20). If Peter had “founded” the Roman Church some ten years before this statement, this represents a real affront to Peter. This statement alone is proof that Peter had never been in Rome before this time to “found” any church. Peter Not in Rome*
 
PROOF FIVE: At the end of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans he greets no fewer than 28 different individuals, but never mentions Peter once! See Romans 16 --read the whole chapter! Remember, Paul greeted these people in 55 or 56 A.D. Why didn’t he mention Peter? – Peter simply wasn’t there!

PROOF SIX: Some four years after Paul wrote Romans, he was conveyed as a prisoner to Rome in order to stand trial before Caesar. When the Christian community in Rome heard of Paul’s arrival, they all went to meet him. “When THE brethren [of Rome] heard of us, they came to meet us” (Acts 28:15). Again, there is not a single mention of Peter among them. This would have been extraordinary had Peter been in Rome, for Luke always mentions by name important Apostles in his narration of Acts. But he says nothing of Peter’s meeting with Paul.

Why? Because Peter was not in Rome!

PROOF SEVEN: When Paul finally arrived at Rome, the first thing he did was to summon “the chief of the Jews together” (Acts 28:17) to whom he “expounded and testified the kingdom of God” (Verse 23). But what is amazing is that these chief Jewish elders claimed they knew very little even about the basic teachings of Christ. All they knew was that ‘‘as concerning this sect, we know that everywhere it is spoken against" (Verse 22). Then Paul began to explain to them the basic teachings of Christ on the Kingdom of God. Some believed – the majority didn’t.

Now, what does all this mean? It means that if Peter, who was himself a strongly partisan Jew, had been preaching constantly in Rome for 14 long years before this time, AND WAS STILL THERE – how could these Jewish leaders have known so little about even the basic truths of Christianity? This again is clear proof Peter had not been in Rome prior to 59 A.D. No Mention of Peter in Paul’s Letters

PROOF EIGHT: After the rejection of the Jewish elders, Paul remained in his own hired house for two years. During that time he wrote Epistles to the Ephesians, the Philippians, the Colossians, Philemon, and to the Hebrews. And while Paul mentions others as being in Rome during that period, he nowhere mentions Peter. The obvious reason is – the Apostle to the circumcision wasn’t there!

PROOF NINE: With the expiration of Paul’s two year’s imprisonment, he was released. But about four years later (near 65 A.D.), he was again sent back a prisoner to Rome. This time he had to appear before the throne of Caesar and was sentenced to die. Paul describes these circumstances at length in II Timothy. In regard to his trial, notice what Paul said in II Timothy 4:16. “At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men [in Rome] forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.” This means, if we believe the Catholics, that Peter forsook Paul, for they tell us Peter was very much present at Rome during this time! Peter once denied Christ, but that was before he was converted. To believe that Peter was in Rome during Paul’s trial, is untenable!

PROOF TEN: The Apostle Paul distinctly informs us that Peter was not in Rome in 65 A.D. – even though Catholics say he was. Paul said: “Only Luke is with me” (II Tim. 4:11). The truth becomes very plain. Paul wrote TO Rome; he had been IN Rome; and at the end wrote at least six epistles FROM Rome; and not only does he NEVER mention Peter, but at the last moment says: “Only Luke is with me.” Peter, therefore, was never Bishop of Rome!

PROOF ELEVEN: Peter’s death is foretold by Christ himself (John 21:18-19.) “. When you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.” Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Hmm, it sounds like Christ himself said that Peter would die of old age. Why would Peter’s death in old age glorify God? Peter was the one that ran from Christ the night of his trial and crucifixion. This exchange is after Christ rose from the tomb and Peter was forgiven three times, just as he denied his master three times before the cock crowed that fateful night of Christ’s trial.

Where was Peter the apostle of Christ? At the times the Catholics believe Peter was in Rome, The Bible clearly shows that he was elsewhere. The evidence is abundant and conclusive. By paying attention to God’s own words, no one need be deceived. Peter was NEVER the Bishop of Rome!

Near 45 A.D., we find Peter being cast into prison at Jerusalem (Acts 12:3, 4). In 49 A.D., he was still in Jerusalem, this time attending the Jerusalem Council. About 51 A.D., he was in Antioch of Syria where he got into differences with Paul because he wouldn’t sit or eat with Gentiles. Strange that the “Roman bishop” would have nothing to do with Gentiles in 51 A.D.! Later in about 66 A.D., we find him in the city of Babylon among the Jews (I Pet. 5:13). Remember that Peter was the Apostle to the CIRCUMCISED. Why was he in Babylon? Because history shows that there were as many Jews in the Mesopotamian areas in Christ’s time as there were in Palestine. It is no wonder we find him in the East. Perhaps this is the reason why scholars say Peter’s writings are strongly Aramaic in flavor, the type of Aramaic spoken in Babylon. Why of course! Peter was used to their eastern dialect.

At the times the Catholics believe Peter was in Rome, The Bible clearly shows he was elsewhere. As previously mentioned there are many supposed historical accounts of Peter in Rome but none of them are first hand accounts and should not be put above the many accounts of The Bible.

We know from The Bible that the apostle Peter was not in Rome. There was a Simon Peter in Rome after the death of Christ but it is not the apostle Peter that was a fisherman from Jerusalem. Who is this Simon Peter that was in Rome during the middle of the first century? This is how the great false Church of Rome got its start; along with the first leader Simon Peter not the apostle Peter.
 
There are some tracts on the Catholic Answers main page available about the primacy of St. Peter, they should help you out quite a bit.
 
I have found this while searching about the ist Pope. Could Simon Magus of been the 1st pope if simon peter never got to Rome?
I am always finding obsticles in my search for faith and my conversion to the Catholic faith.

Also i found pictures of Popes giving the Hitler salute and one pope signing something with vthe Nazi’s. I’ll add them later.

I hope i am not offending with my questions its just that things get harder with my search 😦
I am sure their are pictures of the Pope with Hitler. He was the Churches ambassador to Germany. Often people take these pictures out of context to challenge the Pope. Actually the Pope did many things to help the Jews. There is a good article on this under the library section.
 
Trash and nonsense. The website you are getting this from appears to be run by a Seventh Day Adventist Group, which is anti-catholic, therefore anything posted you should take as suspect (I stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt about 1/8th of the way down the main page when they said the Catholic sexual abuse scandal has been going on since 60 AD).

If you want to know the truth about the Church stick with reputable Catholic sources my friend.
 
I have found this while searching about the ist Pope. Could Simon Magus of been the 1st pope if simon peter never got to Rome?
I am always finding obsticles in my search for faith and my conversion to the Catholic faith.

Also i found pictures of Popes giving the Hitler salute and one pope signing something with vthe Nazi’s. I’ll add them later.

I hope i am not offending with my questions its just that things get harder with my search 😦
Jonni,

What you have to realize that since the earliest times, the biggest confusion for most people is that they think the Bible comes before the Church. This is what gets them all in a tangle.

The first canon for the Bible was declared the WORD OF GOD around 400 AD by the Catholic Church. So you accepted that claim by the Catholic Church because you had already accepted the Catholic Church itself as the AUTHORITY regarding the teaching of Christ.

What this means is that you must still give assent to the Church regarding everything else, especially the fact that it is the FINAL AUTHORITY REGARDING THE INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE (and to be more complete, TRADITION as well).

Most of the accusations by those who have left (or remain outside) the Church in someway has been due to not being able to grasp this simple concept. No Church = No way to support that the Bible is the Word of God OR the importance of Tradition.

So accept the Church because it consists of the descendent school of students of the first Apostles who themselves were the students of Christ the teacher. You don’t try to argue the interpretation of a chapter in a theoretical physics text book with the very physicist who recommended the book, right? To give an analogy, think of Christ as the greatest Physicist and the Apostles and their Apostolic Successors as being the Professors in the field that Christ pioneered.

Once you realize that, you can then accept the authority of the Apostles and Apostolic Successors. Then you can accept by FAITH everything they teach regarding faith and morals and give your 100% assent without fear. Why? Because to ***‘whom else would you go?’ ***
 
There are countless supposed historical accounts that Peter was in Rome but they all come from Catholic sources and are not first hand accounts.
Then again, the Bible is a Catholic source, and is not always a first hand account. 😉
PROOF ONE: We should consider Christ’s commission to Peter. This is often very embarrassing to Catholics, because Christ commissioned Peter to become chief minister to the CIRCUMCISED, not to uncircumcised Gentiles.
Christ commissioned Peter (cf Mt 16:18) to be the head of His Church. Whether another apostle was chosen to minister to a particular locale is beside the point: wherever Christ’s Church was, Peter was its head.

Notice that the context of Galatians 2 is Paul’s justification for preaching the Gospel to the Galatians. The “pillars” of the Church agreed that it was proper that he preached there. Let’s look at an analogous situation: if a bishop sends a priest to take charge of a parish within that bishop’s diocese, does that mean that the priest, and not the bishop, becomes the ultimate authority in that parish? Of course not! He still ministers as the bishop’s representative, and under the bishop’s authority!
PROOF TWO: PAUL Established the Only TRUE Church at Rome during the apostolic era.
PROOF THREE: We are told by Paul himself that it was he – not Peter –who was going to officially found the Roman Church.
OK… this claim is just weird. Paul says:
you also, who are called to belong to Jesus Christ; to all the beloved of God in Rome, called to be holy. … First, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world. … For I long to see you… I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I often planned to come to you, though I was prevented until now… I am eager to preach the gospel also to you in Rome.
(Rom 1:6-7, 8, 11, 13, 15)

So, let’s walk through this carefully. Paul is writing to an established Christian Church in Rome – a Church whose faith is known throughout the world. He really, really wants to come to Rome to preach, but he has never done so. OK, so what does this mean? Well, first off, Paul clearly did not found the Church at Rome. Moreover, at the time he writes Romans, he’s still never even been to visit the community there. Now… how does this show that Paul established that community? Moreover, how does it demonstrate that Peter was not involved in that Church?
PROOF FOUR: We find Paul not only wanting to establish the Church at Rome, but he emphatically tells us that his policy was NEVER to build upon another man’s foundation. “Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, LEST I SHOULD BUILD UPON ANOTHER MAN’S FOUNDATION”(Rom. 15:20).
It’s a good thing to look at more context than just a single verse. Paul says:
I aspire to proclaim the gospel not where Christ has already been named, so that I do not build on another’s foundation… that is why I have so often been prevented from coming to you. But now, since I no longer have any opportunity in these regions and since I have desired to come to you for many years, I hope to see you in passing as I go to Spain. … Now, however, I am going to Jerusalem to minister to the holy ones.
(Rom 15:20, 22-24, 25).

Again, let’s look carefully. Paul didn’t go to Rome to found a Church, since another man’s foundation had already been built there! However, he hopes to pass through – not to build a Church, but to visit, on the way to Spain, where he hopes to found more Churches! Does Paul refuse to visit other places where Churches already exist? Of course not – he’s going to pass through Jerusalem, too!

These ‘proofs’ are poorly constructed; worse, they hinge on you not going to the Word of God to verify them – once you do so, you see how quickly they unravel. Do these people really think Catholics never open their Bibles? Do they hope that their own people do not, either? :rolleyes:
 
That photo didn’t work. Maybe this one will:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
[He] tries to still develop his anti-Catholic theme by arguing that it shows how Father Ratzinger (and his brother who is also a priest and appears in the uncropped photo) are members of a pagan Church due to the way they conduct the blessing.
I thought that was a weird argument, too. He tries to say that Christians raise their hands up to God in prayer, but he totally ignores the fact that this photo doesn’t show prayer in supplication, but rather a blessing (for which a ‘laying on of hands’ is a Christian tradition!)…
 
Is that the one with a pudgy guy in a Nazi uniform, with a superimposed arrow labeled “Ratzinger”, standing next to Catholic bishops on one side and with Goebbels at the far other side? Besides the age problem, there’s also the fact that Goebbels was 5’5", and Ratzinger is 5’7", and in the photo, “Ratzinger” is shorter than Goebbels… 😉
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top