"simulating" Mass?

[OraLabora]

This posting is interesting because “how” does one “simulate” Mass? The discussion was about unconsecrated hosts, right?

Is it possible to have a ceremony, or service, NOTE NOT A MASS then? I have been thinking about a number of projects that are “mass like” but not a Mass as they would not feature or interact with a consecrated host.

Thoughts?

Bruce Ferguson or
Trickster

The Liturgy of the Church of course isn’t limited to the Mass. There’s also the Divine Office (aka Liturgy of the Hours), there are even rubrics for celebration of the LOTH in public without the presence of a priest or deacon. Any prayer group gathered can celebrate one of the appropriate offices without ordained clergy presiding, by simply following the correct rubrics.

That said, there are of course lay-led (or deacon-led) communion services that sometimes substitute for Mass (using pre-consecrated hosts) when there is no priest available. Again the Church has rubrics for those, and they are carefully crafted so as to not confuse such a service with a Mass.

So there is really no need to “play priest” (not talking about children here!) and simulate a “mass” to receive communion or to participate in the Church’s liturgy. Apart from the use of such simulations as a teaching aid (e.g. perhaps to explain the Mass to catechumens, kids getting ready for first communion, in seminaries, etc.)

 

[trickster]

I don’t agree with him/her at all. He is just confusing the issue by using the word “consecrate” , the word we use to describe the priest’s action for changing the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ.

Hi Zab, yes, I see your point too. I googled the word “consencrate” It means at least three things;

con·se·crat·ed, con·se·crat·ing, con·se·crates

1. To declare or set apart as sacred: consecrate a church.
2. Christianity
   a. To produce the ritual transformation of (the elements of the Eucharist) into the body and blood of Jesus.
   b. To sanctify (bread and wine) for use in Communion.
   c. To initiate (a priest) into the order of bishops.
3. To dedicate solemnly to a service or goal. See Synonyms at devote.
4. To make venerable; hallow: a tradition consecrated by time.

So if we separate the words consecrating with transubstantiation I could kind of see Sacred Heart’s point, but it is not consistent with how most Catholics understand the idea…

Thanks for your view on that perspective too.

Bruce

 

[trickster]

The Liturgy of the Church of course isn’t limited to the Mass. There’s also the Divine Office (aka Liturgy of the Hours), there are even rubrics for celebration of the LOTH in public without the presence of a priest or deacon. Any prayer group gathered can celebrate one of the appropriate offices without ordained clergy presiding, by simply following the correct rubrics.

That said, there are of course lay-led (or deacon-led) communion services that sometimes substitute for Mass (using pre-consecrated hosts) when there is no priest available. Again the Church has rubrics for those, and they are carefully crafted so as to not confuse such a service with a Mass.

So there is really no need to “play priest” (not talking about children here!) and simulate a “mass” to receive communion or to participate in the Church’s liturgy. Apart from the use of such simulations as a teaching aid (e.g. perhaps to explain the Mass to catechumens, kids getting ready for first communion, in seminaries, etc.)

Thank you OraLabora…I really appreciate the work you put into constructing that response…it is well thought out.

In fact, the Mass in the ordinary form that most of know, is in two parts, the Liturgy of the Word and the Eucharist, right? So is it when only those two things are together that we have a Mass, or could a Mass drop the Liturgy of the Word part and focus on the Eucharisitc Part?

I have heard the word rubrics a lot but actually haven’t googled it up yet What is Rubrics?

Bruce
Trickster

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I have heard the word rubrics a lot but actually haven’t googled it up yet What is Rubrics?

Bruce
Trickster

Rubrics are the words in the Roman Missal, printed in red ink, that instruct the priest on what his words and actions should be at specific parts of the Mass. It might say something like “The priest faces the people and says…” followed by the black-colored text of the prayer. Hence the saying “Say the black, do the red.”

 

[Mintaka]

Just to clarify again:

Canon law uses the word “simulation” as a technical term, a translation of the Latin word “simulatio”. This isn’t the Sims we’re talking about, or any other colloquial use of the English word. It’s more like the way normal English uses the word “dissimulation.”

Here’s Fr. Hardon’s definition of Sacramental “simulation”:

Changing, secretly and unlawfully, either the matter or the form or the necessary intention, so that the sacrament becomes invalid and the recipient is led into error.

Everybody knows that an actor or a kid isn’t a priest, so nobody can possibly be led into error by a play or a pretend game. This is about real priests saying fake Masses, or fake priests trying to convince congregations that he’s a real priest saying a real Mass.

Basically, it’s a matter of fraud against the congregation, not of pretending.

 

[Mintaka]

A priest can also do this crime in a sort of (even if good-intentioned) malpractice way, by breaking the law of how Sacraments work.

For example, if the priest is supposed to baptize a baby, and he messes around with the important words. Even if his intention is good and he means to baptize as the Church baptizes, the actual words of Baptism are important enough “form” to make it a non-Baptism if you mess around with them.

For example, if you baptize in the name of Bob, Ellen, and Fido the Dog. Or, less humorously, as in the cases in Australia when somebody was going around simulating Baptism by saying “In the Name of the Creator, the Redeemer, and the Sanctifier”, instead of calling the Trinity by their Names. Hundreds of children and adults had to go get baptized, when they found out they’d never actually been baptized for real.

Of course, many laypeople don’t know what the Really Vital things are, when it comes to a Sacrament, as opposed to what the priest shouldn’t change but which don’t change the Sacraments by themselves. So a lot of priests have gotten away with this over the years. But it’s really cruel and arrogant for a priest to do this to a congregation.

 

[Lapey]

I simulate mass everyday. And there is nothing wrong with observing the Sabbath in your own home. I consecrate bread and wine everyday and receive them in prayer. My offering is as valid as any of yours.

Unless you are a validly ordained priest, who is in good standing with faculties to celebrate mass, then your devotion is a sacrilege and sinful; i.e. idol worship. Adoring and consuming the Eucharist is worshiping God, to do this with plain bread and wine is not fine; in fact it’s plain weird.

There is mass near you every day I would bet, please do some research and go to mass daily and receive His body and blood. PS. Seek out your parish priest to talk this over and receive the sacrament of reconciliation!