Sin in Catholic Theology

[romclev]

In Catholic theology, is sin always sin - no matter when or where
or for what reason?

 

[twb1621]

In Catholic theology, is sin always sin - no matter when or where
or for what reason?

sin is sin but circumstances and knowledge of the sin do enter into it. Do you have an example of what kind of situation you are referring to?

 

[DavidFilmer]

In Catholic theology, is sin always sin - no matter when or where
or for what reason?

There are two types of sin, venial (small) and mortal (big). As the Bible says:

If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one - to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal. (1Jn 5:16, NRSV)

A single mortal sin causes the spiritual death of the soul (“mortal” means “causes death”), although we may be restored to spiritual life, ordinarily by Confession. If we die while in a state of mortal sin, we are consigned to hell (you cannot attain everlasting life with a dead spirit).

Other sins are “venial.” A trillion venial sins will not lead to spiritual death (although it would lead to severe spiritual sickness).

A sin is “mortal” if it FULLY meets ALL of these criteria:

• It regards a serious offense (such as breaking one of the Ten Commandments).
• The person is fully aware of the serious nature of the offense at the time the sin is committed.
• The person freely consents to the offense.
  Catholic theology recognizes the idea of “culpability” for a sin. It is possible to do something which would normally be a mortal sin, but due to the circumstances, it is only venially sinful, or maybe not even sinful at all.

For example, a drunken person may hurt or kill someone. Is it a mortal sin? It depends on whether the drunken person has the capacity to fully understand and fully and freely consent to the act. The free will can be impaired by the drunken state.

Is the drunkenness itself a mortal sin? Maybe - but maybe not. We recognize that drinking can be an addiction, and an addicted state can impair our free will.

So it’s possible that the drunken killer is culpable for nothing more than a venial sin. But only God really knows for sure.

We can actually never be absolutely certain if our OWN sins are venial or mortal (much less the sins of others). This is one reason why the Church encourages frequent Confession, even if we don’t believe we have mortal sin on our conscience.

 

[romclev]

sin is sin but circumstances and knowledge of the sin do enter into it. Do you have an example of what kind of situation you are referring to?

Some friends and I thought of the following:

• In the Middle Ages, it was a sin for Catholics to charge interest
  on a loan. Now, it is not a sin.
• As late at 1860, the Catholic church taught that it was not a sin
  to own another human being so long as the slave was treated
  humanely. Now, human slavery is a sin.
• Catholic theologians, including Thomas Aquinas, wrote vigorous
  defenses of capital punishment. Some popes even issued
  death sentences themselves in their capacity as civil rulers.
  Now, Catholics oppose capital punishment. Is capital
  punishment a sin?
• Traditionally, Catholic Mass was celebrated in Latin. Now,
  Traditional Catholic priests have Latin Masses, but it is a
  sin for Catholics to attend them and to receive communion
  at a traditional Latin Mass. Is going to Latin Mass a sin?
• If a Catholic priest leaves the priesthood and marries without
  permission, he commits a sin. But, if he has permission, he
  can marry and is forgiven for his sin of marriage. Is marriage
  a sin for a priest?
• If a married Catholic gets a divorce and remarries, he sins.
  If a married Catholic gets a divorce and a church annulment,
  he can remarry and not sin. So, the Catholic Church permits
  sin. Also, the Catholic Church says annulment means there
  was no first marriage, so marital intercourse was a sin and
  any children of the first marriage are illegitimate.

 

[Claude_Frollo]

Is sloth a mortal sin or a venial sin ?

 

[Syele]

Catholic Sin is very “Situational” as can be seen in the rules for what makes something a mortal sin. Sin is not always sin. It is one of my larger disagreements with the Catholic Church.

 

[clmowry]

Catholic Sin is very “Situational” as can be seen in the rules for what makes something a mortal sin. Sin is not always sin. It is one of my larger disagreements with the Catholic Church.

What is the nature of the disagreement?

Perhaps an example might help me to understand.

I “think” the church teaches a sin is always sin, however, one might not always be culpalbe for that sin.

That does not change the nature of the act itself.

i.e. A lie is always a lie and cannot become inherrently good.

When the Nazi asked the priest if there were any Jews in the Church and he said no, knowing full well that there were, he told a lie.

The lie was a sin.

A sin for which I doubt he would be found culpable by our heavenly Father.

Which part do I not understand correctly? Which part do you disagree with?

Chuck

 

[Evan]

Some friends and I thought of the following:

• Catholic theologians, including Thomas Aquinas, wrote vigorous
  defenses of capital punishment. Some popes even issued
  death sentences themselves in their capacity as civil rulers.
  Now, Catholics oppose capital punishment. Is capital
  punishment a sin?

Capital punishment, is not a sin. It is a lawful action of the State. See CCC 2266 - 2267

• Traditionally, Catholic Mass was celebrated in Latin. Now,
  Traditional Catholic priests have Latin Masses, but it is a
  sin for Catholics to attend them and to receive communion
  at a traditional Latin Mass. Is going to Latin Mass a sin?

Any priest of the Latin Rite (as most priests in the world are) can offer the mass in Latin (Novus Ordo Mass). Any Catholic can go to the mass and receive communion. Special permission is granted to offer the mass in the vernacular

• If a Catholic priest leaves the priesthood and marries without
  permission, he commits a sin. But, if he has permission, he
  can marry and is forgiven for his sin of marriage. Is marriage
  a sin for a priest?

At a priests ordination he promises never to marry. If he wished to marry, he must get permission from the one he made the promis to, the church, to be released from the promise.

• If a married Catholic gets a divorce and remarries, he sins.
  If a married Catholic gets a divorce and a church annulment,
  he can remarry and not sin.

If he remarries he is committing adultery against his first spouse, a sin.

If he recieved “an annulment” (actually a decree of nullity) the first marriage was recognized to not have been sacramental. That is, not a marriage in the eyes of God and the Church. Since there was no first marriage, there is not second marriage, only a true sacramental marriage to the second “spouse”. So in the second marriage there is no sin.

People apply for annulments and do not get them. There had to be grounds at the time of the initial marriage ceremony to indicate the marriage was not sacramental.

Also, the Catholic Church says annulment means there
was no first marriage, so marital intercourse was a sin and
any children of the first marriage are illegitimate.

Marital intercourse is not a sin when you are living in a non-sacramental marriage. The marriage is not sacramental, but the people are still civilly married. The church does not believe athiests sin when they marry and live a fruitful life, although there is no way for them to be in a sacramental marriage.

The church does not have anything to say about illegitimacy. That was more of a aristocratic notion for inheriting a title (duke, king, earl, jester, etc).

There are a couple “sins” I did not comment on as I don’t have the background, but I suspect it is the same. A nuanced understanding of church teaching shows that the “sin” is one of disobedience, discipline, or culture.

I do know that our definition of slave differs from that of 1000 years ago and in a capitalist economy the use of money is different from 1000 years ago.

 

[Corki]

I’ll give this a try.

Some friends and I thought of the following:

• In the Middle Ages, it was a sin for Catholics to charge interest
  on a loan. Now, it is not a sin.

Context is key here. There were no banking regulations and the Church was the only controling force. The sin wasn’t in the interest itself but in disobeying the Church’s laws at the time (Same issue with fish on Friday, in case you were wondering)

• As late at 1860, the Catholic church taught that it was not a sin
  to own another human being so long as the slave was treated
  humanely. Now, human slavery is a sin.

Do you have a source for that? The Church was teaching the evils of slavery long before the emancipation movement. I think your dates are off. Many Popes have applologized for the Church not taking a stronger, earlier stance against slavery.

• Catholic theologians, including Thomas Aquinas, wrote vigorous
  defenses of capital punishment. Some popes even issued
  death sentences themselves in their capacity as civil rulers.
  Now, Catholics oppose capital punishment. Is capital
  punishment a sin?

No, capital punishment is not a sin. Technically, only people can sin, not governments and capital punishment is a government action. In any case, capital punishment is considered something that should be rare, if non-existent in modern countries. It is an area where the Chuch allows differences in opinion.

• Traditionally, Catholic Mass was celebrated in Latin. Now,
  Traditional Catholic priests have Latin Masses, but it is a
  sin for Catholics to attend them and to receive communion
  at a traditional Latin Mass. Is going to Latin Mass a sin?

Attending Latin Mass has never been a sin. Even when the traditional Mass was being surpressed by some Bishops, the “new” Mass could be said in Latin. Now the Traditional Mass can be offered by priests at any time. You are referring to schismatic or separated groups who celebrated Mass outside the Church structure. Catholics are discouraged from attending their services and receiveing Communion there but in most cases, unless one is supporting the schism, it isn’t sinful to do so.

• If a Catholic priest leaves the priesthood and marries without
  permission, he commits a sin. But, if he has permission, he
  can marry and is forgiven for his sin of marriage. Is marriage
  a sin for a priest?

Once ordained, a priest cannot marry. If a priest is laicized (returned to the lay state) he can marry. Again, marriage isn’t the sin. The sin is disobedience to those in authority (the Bishops) to whom the priest has solemnly vowed obedience.

• If a married Catholic gets a divorce and remarries, he sins.
  If a married Catholic gets a divorce and a church annulment,
  he can remarry and not sin. So, the Catholic Church permits
  sin. Also, the Catholic Church says annulment means there
  was no first marriage, so marital intercourse was a sin and
  any children of the first marriage are illegitimate.

You are operating under some misinformation here. No, the marital intercource that occured when a couple believed they were married is not retroactively sinful after an annulment. No, the children are not illegitamate. Legitimacy is a factor of the civil union, not the Sacramental one.

 

[Corki]

Catholic Sin is very “Situational” as can be seen in the rules for what makes something a mortal sin. Sin is not always sin. It is one of my larger disagreements with the Catholic Church.

What you call “situational” is a great blessing! You can’t sin mortally unless you know something is a sin and commit it intentionally. That’s the situationality.

 

[Syele]

What you call “situational” is a great blessing! You can’t sin mortally unless you know something is a sin and commit it intentionally. That’s the situationality.

God’s nature does not change because you didn’t know better. You think the people of Sodom or Ninevah all knew they were sinning against God? They didn’t that is why people were sent to tell them! The Ninevites repented when they were confronted with their sin. They weren’t excused form it on the basis they didn’t know better they were spared for repenting. Yes, God will give you a chance and let you know about it because He is merciful, but that doesn’t make what you did OK. Otherwise I could just make sure I don’t know right form wrong… then I could do what I like cause Id never know better.

What is the nature of the disagreement?

Perhaps an example might help me to understand.

I “think” the church teaches a sin is always sin, however, one might not always be culpalbe for that sin.

That does not change the nature of the act itself.

i.e. A lie is always a lie and cannot become inherrently good
Correct, but God is also not less offended by the lie cause you are “addicted to lying” or because “it was only a little lie”

When the Nazi asked the priest if there were any Jews in the Church and he said no, knowing full well that there were, he told a lie.

The lie was a sin.

A sin for which I doubt he would be found culpable by our heavenly Father.

Which part do I not understand correctly? Which part do you disagree with?

Chuck

God may show more mercy on you for some things but Sin still offends Him just as much weather you are deemed “Culpable” or not.

My main complaints with it are the rules for what makes a mortal sin vs venial.

• It regards a serious offense (such as breaking one of the Ten Commandments).
  All sins are serious offenses.
• The person is fully aware of the serious nature of the offense at the time the sin is committed.
  God doesn’t get less offended if you didn’t bother to find out if its ok.
• The person freely consents to the offense.
  He is also not less offended cause you feel “addicted” Addictions may be strong but God can overcome *anything *its up to you to turn to Him not to say “oh, well I didn’t have enough free will” and you don’t start out addicted you got there on your own in almost every case. Other than that, I agree, if someone forced you at gunpoint you didn’t sin, whoever forced you did.

I believe All sins are venial. Unless they are sin that leads to death,

What is the sin that leads to death? A total rejection of God. You can do it outright all at once with a knowing decesion to reject Him, or you can sin over and over without repenting (does not matter how BIG the sin is) till God gets tired of your behavior and just Hardens your heart. that is why the verse says not to bother if its a sin that leads to death… the person who has done that will not change their minds, Praying is too late. That is why its “mortal”, its too late.
1 john 5:

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death(venial sin), he should pray and God will give him life (not mortal, there is hope). I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death(Mortal). I am not saying that he should pray about that.(No point in praying for what is completely lost already!) 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
18We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. 19We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

We are children of God! think about that in your own family. In a loving family if a child does something wrong the parent does not throw them out on the street and leave them to die till they apologize. No, the parent tells them, “Honey that was wrong, you should not have hit your sister with the doll!” The parent still accepts the child as their own, the Child is still part of the family, the parent still feeds them. But the parent also teachs them and sometimes must punish them. Do you think God has no way to discipline us but hell? The analogy is a good one and that is why I think its used in scripture so much. There is a time when a parent might disown their older stubborn and wayward child when left with no other option and also some children leave on their own… run away and disown their parents. But that does not happen until there is an extreme situation. I don’t believe Scriptures refer to us as Children of God for no reason.

If you commit a sin, lets say lying, God, Our Father, is deeply offended. the sin must be truly repented of or you risk it becoming a mortal sin by repeating it without repentance. The priest saving the life of the Jew from the Nazi should feel grieved that he had to sin to prevent a greater sin. It doesn’t make it not a sin. Hopefully he is praying for guidance from God the whole time and allowing God to give him words to say. God could help him neither lie nor give up the Jew to be killed. There is no situation greater than our God.

So I find the Catholic version of what is Mortal and what is Venial to be both too lenient and too strict in different parts.