sin in dreams

[Niji]

If you committed a sin in your dreams and you were 100% aware (lucidity) then would that be a sin against god in reality?

What about just dreaming of doing sinful things, are we still held accountable?

 

[karebear92]

If you were able to control your dreams somehow, then yes. For a mortal sin, three conditions must be met: consent, knowledge that what you did was a sin, and it must be of a grave matter. In my dreams, I do not have consent.

 

[GEddie]

Aiui, Church teaching is that we do not have full volition in our dreams; as such; we cannot sin while dreaming.

Similarly, one cannot sin while one is intoxicated, as one does not have full control of their voilition. However, getting intoxicated to that extent would itself be a grave sin. Whereas, dreaming is a natural, necessary part of being alive.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Anthony_V]

This would be a venial sin at most. And you would have to be in an utterly and entirely lucid dream state.

Mortal sin requires:
A) FULL consent of the will
B) FULL knowledge of the action
C) Grave matter

The matter can and will not be grave at any point during your sleep cycle because you are handicapped to a greater or lesser degree. Despite lucidity, your brain does not function as it does when you are awake. Your motor skills, wisdom/knowledge, and bodily functions are handicapped.
If you could sin while sleeping, this would make “wet dreams” sinful, and by no means are they. If a man is currently celibate and “functioning”, then he must discharge involuntarily every now and then in order to keep his seminal vesicles from bursting.

 

[coolduude]

Aiui, Church teaching is that we do not have full volition in our dreams; as such; we cannot sin while dreaming.

Similarly, one cannot sin while one is intoxicated, as one does not have full control of their voilition. However, getting intoxicated to that extent would itself be a grave sin. Whereas, dreaming is a natural, necessary part of being alive.

ICXC NIKA

That’s a valid point. However, the OP was talking about lucid dreams, i.e., dreams that the dreamer can control.

I would say, then, that if one can choose to control the content of their dream, and with that choice chooses to sin, then I would say it is a sin. Even though the action didn’t happen in reality, there is still a sin occurring (lust, perhaps, or greed, maybe pride).

 

[GEddie]

That’s a valid point. However, the OP was talking about lucid dreams, i.e., dreams that the dreamer can control.

Lucidity in dreaming implies consciousness of the dream state. It does not imply full volitional control.

Although you can “move” your “imaginary body” in a lucid dream, you would not necessarily have control over the other elements in it.

Aiui, scientifically, the frontal lobes in our brain (which make our judgemental decisions) are disabled in dreaming, the same way that our muscles are. Therefore, you’d be unable to judge what action is a sin and to take “action” accordingly.

I would say, then, that if one can choose to control the content of their dream, and with that choice chooses to sin, then I would say it is a sin. Even though the action didn’t happen in reality, there is still a sin occurring (lust, perhaps, or greed, maybe pride).

Sin would only occur if you have full volitional command of the process. In a dreaming body, you don’t.

ICXC NIKA

 

[coolduude]

From Wikipedia:

A lucid dream is a dream in which one is aware that one is dreaming. The term was coined by the Dutch psychiatrist and writer Frederik (Willem) van Eeden (1860–1932).[1] In a lucid dream, the dreamer can actively participate in and manipulate imaginary experiences in the dream environment.[2] Lucid dreams can seem real and vivid.[3]

It does seem that one can control more than the first person ‘character’ of the dream.

However, I concede my point. Trying to prove this would be futile, and I’m not sure I even could

 

[The_Long_Road]

Good reply Anthony.

Firstly, I think the nonsense of so called lucid dreaming needs to be discarded. Are you daydreaming, then you are not asleep. Are you asleep, then you are not in control of the dream. It might be new age fancy to think that you are in control of your dreams, but it is a self fulfilling prophecy. You say to yourself “Think of something else” and the dream changes and therefore you think that you have control of your dreams. But this is not true for if you had control to begin with then you would not need to change the dream from one topic to another.

There is no full control of true dreaming, only a false idea of control as your mind gravely attempts to switch from one state to another in response to physical stimuli. You can only seem to control the dream because you may semi-consciously arise to alter a dream at a particular point in time, but that is all. When you feel that you are controlling the entirety of a dream then you are not dreaming but awakening and your thoughts are your own. You must remember that if you video tape yourself sleeping you will only remember one tenth of the time that you are supposedly dreaming and that portion only generally during the time that you are awakening. As you awaken you gain further control of that tail end portion of the dream. Lucid dreaming is a new age fanciful lie and that is the sin that you are committing, that of lying to yourself about the truth in order to feel cool about a new age false fad.

 

[coolduude]

Good reply Anthony.

Firstly, I think the nonsense of so called lucid dreaming needs to be discarded. Are you daydreaming, then you are not asleep. Are you asleep, then you are not in control of the dream. It might be new age fancy to think that you are in control of your dreams, but it is a self fulfilling prophecy. You say to yourself “Think of something else” and the dream changes and therefore you think that you have control of your dreams. But this is not true for if you had control to begin with then you would not need to change the dream from one topic to another.

There is no full control of true dreaming, only a false idea of control as your mind gravely attempts to switch from one state to another in response to physical stimuli. You can only seem to control the dream because you may semi-consciously arise to alter a dream at a particular point in time, but that is all. When you feel that you are controlling the entirety of a dream then you are not dreaming but awakening and your thoughts are your own. You must remember that if you video tape yourself sleeping you will only remember one tenth of the time that you are supposedly dreaming and that portion only generally during the time that you are awakening. As you awaken you gain further control of that tail end portion of the dream. Lucid dreaming is a new age fanciful lie and that is the sin that you are committing, that of lying to yourself about the truth in order to feel cool about a new age false fad.

I wouldn’t say lucid dreaming is new age-y. Lucid dreams have been scientifically tested and verified. They certainly exist. I suppose the debate, then, would be the extent to which you control things in a true lucid dream.

 

[GEddie]

From Wikipedia:

It does seem that one can control more than the first person ‘character’ of the dream

Even if you can, it remains the case that your judgemental faculties are in abeyance while dreaming, much as limb movement is. If you attempted to carry out a reasoned judgement about sin, or anything else, you’s wake up.

As such, you may be able to control the scenery, so to speak, but a full decision to sin cannot be made.

ICXC NIKA.