Sin vs. Psychopathy: Where to draw the line?

[Tis_Bearself]

As stated twice already, we cannot not draw the line. It is impossible. God alone draws this line. It is not our task, but might be our sin, if we try to do this on an individual.

Yes. Unless the person is ourself, or perhaps a close loved one about whom we are naturally concerned, it’s not our place to think about how God might judge someone. We should pray for their soul and leave it at that.

The danger with sitting around pondering how God will judge others is that it’s a distraction from what we should be focusing on, which is our own relationship with God.

 

[Peaceable]

This is beautiful, thanks for this!

 

[Annie]

It’s interesting that you say all this, because I remember the tv show Person of Interest, and in the last few seasons, there was a woman who seemed to be socio- or psychopathic, but she was totally on the side of good, even tho her favorite part of being on the side of good seemed to be shooting up those on the side of evil.

But she did make me think that even tho psychopaths and sociopaths lack empathy and do not seem to feel things, they can still choose to be good instead of bad. We hear about psychopathic killers, which kind of gives the impression that that is all a psychopath can be, but what you are saying is that people can choose.

 

[Theban]

We hear about psychopathic killers, which kind of gives the impression that that is all a psychopath can be, but what you are saying is that people can choose.

Yes, I think it’s very easy to generalize people and create an image of what their like based on psychological disorders and complexes. Fortunately, it is not that simple to summarize who someone is. It’s worth noting that psychopathy is a very common disorder, with an estimated 1 in 100 to 1 in 200 having it in some degree, and yet there are far fewer serial killers and the like going around (although it is true that psychopaths are statistically significantly more likely to commit crimes).

 

[MNathaniel]

Seems like they are born evil… They do not have a conscience…

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. I think that seems like an overstatement. Born with an additional natural inclination to sin, maybe. Born with a mental disorder that impacts their ability to empathize, sure. But ‘evil’ is something else, and I see no evidence anywhere to suggest that a person suffering from psychopathy lacks a “conscience”. They might have an exceptionally poorly-formed conscience, but surely what the Catholic Church means by ‘conscience’ involves a spiritual reality: not just a matter of psychological inclination or biochemical affectivity.

And I don’t think science has yet provided any evidence that people with psychopathy are incapable of learning to care about others (even if empathy never comes ‘naturally’ to them, they can intellectually come to the conclusion that another human being has intrinsic value, and act accordingly). And as Catholics I don’t think we should write anybody off as incapable of developing a well-formed conscience and achieving true Communion with God.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s important to distinguish between “primary” psychopathy, which is the general tendency to lack empathy and tolerate antisocial behavior, and “secondary” psychopathy, which is the degree to which the person actually breaks rules and isn’t motivated by societal rewards. You can take psychopathy tests online and they’ll measure your score in each of these areas.

A person can have a general tendency towards primary psychopathy where they just don’t feel as much empathy as others do, but for whatever reason (including religious belief) they might have learned to conform their behavior to what society expects. So not every psychopath is going to run around showing antisocial “evil” behavior. They might just excel in some career that doesn’t involve a lot of emotions, or where emotions tend to get in the way of doing the work. You very likely have such psychopaths walking around everywhere you go and will never know it.

 

[pnewton]

Yes. Unless the person is ourself

Good point. In that regard, I err on the side of sin, lest I sin by presumption. But for us personally, there is confession.

 

[Sarcelle]

I truly hope you are right and I am wrong.

However having met and worked with sociopaths, I try to avoid them as much as possible if I can.

 

[Maragal]

I “think” it was Francis De Sales (it was a prominant theologean, anyway, and pretty sure it was DeSales)who said something along the lines of “look how unclearly we even understand our own soul, far more for the souls of others…look how many times we find ourselves wrong…so its dangerous business to think we “know” the state of anothers soul…”

 

[TotusTuusForever]

So I found a catholic source that brought up a great point. Just because someone is lacking empathy doesn’t mean they can’t obey the church’s teachings. So, true love for a sociopath would mean being obedient to God and maybe not feeling love but definitely acting with charity.

So the guy on the news who kills his wife, with this understanding, is culpable because he still freely chose not to obey the laws of God.
(Though this is just theoretical since we can’t read souls.)

And it also follows that there are sociopathic people among us who do their best to do good. But we don’t know about them because they don’t violate the laws of God and man anymore that the average person.

It’s actually a reminder that we are all called to obedience and not obeying Gods laws leaves us culpable if we are aware of his laws when we violate them.

 

[Kei]

This brings up an interesting point. Our brain is not fully formed when we are born. Brain elasticity is an established fact, and it is not just in childhood. It is now recognized that our brains change all throughout life. Not saying that someone was yesterday not a psychopath and today is, just want to get that out there.
No one is born evil. But we are all born in our fallen state of sin. Pray for these poor souls who, though lacking in empathy, can still follow God’s Will. We are to pray for our enemies, so how much easier to pray for souls who are on the journey to holiness as well? After all, not all psychopaths are terrible criminals, and they can live relatively normal lives, even as much as our culture makes it seem like such a scary word. God bless