Sinful/risky behavior?

[bellesjoy]

While I do not want to speak specifically about the terrible fate that seems to have befallen the three men lost on Mt. Hood, I would like to seek opinions about the morality of putting ones self in grave danger or peril for the sake of “a thrill”.

For this discussion I would like to focus on the culpability of causing one’s self injury or even death by participating in extreme sports/activities. Let’s assume that we are talking about those activities that do not include dangerous jobs that contribute to society (fireman,police,etc.), but things done for “fun” or just to see if you can do it, for the purpose of your own personal pleasure.

Is it sinful to put one’s self at risk, especially if you have a wife and children? I am very troubled by this and have great sympathy for the families of these men and pray also for the men (one who has already been found dead). But should a man (or woman) treat their lives with so little regard?

Even if you don’t think the lost climbers are such an example, do you think that in general this is wrong?

I recently came across this in an examination of conscience:
“Have you done anything to shorten your own or any other’s life or to hasten death or rashly exposed yourself or others to danger? How often?”

 

[Franciscan]

While I do not want to speak specifically about the terrible fate that seems to have befallen the three men lost on Mt. Hood, I would like to seek opinions about the morality of putting ones self in grave danger or peril for the sake of “a thrill”.

For this discussion I would like to focus on the culpability of causing one’s self injury or even death by participating in extreme sports/activities. Let’s assume that we are talking about those activities that do not include dangerous jobs that contribute to society (fireman,police,etc.), but things done for “fun” or just to see if you can do it, for the purpose of your own personal pleasure.

Is it sinful to put one’s self at risk, especially if you have a wife and children? I am very troubled by this and have great sympathy for the families of these men and pray also for the men (one who has already been found dead). But should a man (or woman) treat their lives with so little regard?

Even if you don’t think the lost climbers are such an example, do you think that in general this is wrong?

I recently came across this in an examination of conscience:
“Have you done anything to shorten your own or any other’s life or to hasten death or rashly exposed yourself or others to danger? How often?”

I understand exactly what you are saying. I think there will be people who will say there’s a lack of compassion but they’re missing your point. Fathers (parents) have a responsibility to preserve their health and to stay out of danger whenever possible. Atleast until they are no longer responsible for the littleones.
Still we pray for them all.

 

[Franciscan]

What if he was on a spiritual mission or journey?
His family said he climbed to be closer to God not just for the thrill.

nypost.com/seven/12192006/news/nationalnews/hiker_died_close_to_god_nationalnews_josh_silverman_and_andy_geller.htm

 

[setter]

What if he was on a spiritual mission or journey?
His family said he climbed to be closer to God not just for the thrill.

Men do this all the time in order to get their play time in …“Honey, I will be a better man and husband if you let me do this.” …yeah, right.

 

[Traci]

Good Question.

I have to say that I would think that uneccesary “risky” behavior would be passing someone around a corner in a no pass zone for the thrill of it. You aren’t taking any safety precautions in this situtation.

My husband and I are both big outdoors people. We do a lot of mountain biking, skiing, kayaking, hiking, camping and yes rock climbing and such. My husband just climbed the Grand Teton in WY last year:thumbsup: . We just went winter camping and backcountry skiing this past weekend. I have to say that although these activities have associated risks, there are many precautions to take to make them safe activities.

Everything you do has associated risks, every time you get in your car, or on a plane, etc, or even sitting in your home 24-7 (like obesity from no exercise) you put yourself at some level of risk.

Just my two cents. I am curious to see how others feel about this too!

 

[Traci]

Men do this all the time in order to get their play time in …“Honey, I will be a better man and husband if you let me do this.” …yeah, right.

I don’t know if I totally agree with you on this one

I am a wife and I need to have my play time outdoors too. It is my love to be out in the woods and so is my husbands. It is my stress relief to get away from technology and live the simple life camping with the bare necessities to remember what is important. I do feel like it is God’s country out there with the nature he created. And to do some peak bagging and feel like you could touch the heavens from that mountain peak is icing on the cake and is good for the soul too. I think anyway

It seems that mountains are associated with God, for good reason. Moses went up to the mountain to encounter God, and there are other examples too. I think (don’t quote me on these I am just winging it) the OT is filled with prophets going to the mountains to encounter God isnt’ it? Wasn’t the burning bush on a mountain, didn’t Abraham take his son up the mountain to sacrifice him, etc.?

 

[Hawthorne]

I read somewhere, and I forget where, that there is a genetic component to thrill seeking that places the adrenaline rush of danger into the realm of the addictive.

I myself believe that one should take all reasonable precautions for whatever situation one is going to be in, but that new experiences can broaden a person and hopefully help the person grow.

Extreme locations like the deep sea or high mountains, extreme situations like hunger and fatigue, and other extremes of effort can be, I believe, a path to holiness. They can be a route to overcoming the flesh by willpower and expose us to some of the great beauty of creation.

I think frivolous actions that endanger us should be very limited, and never only for personal pleasure, such as smoking or excessive drinking.

 

[Traci]

I read somewhere, and I forget where, that there is a genetic component to thrill seeking that places the adrenaline rush of danger into the realm of the addictive.

I myself believe that one should take all reasonable precautions for whatever situation one is going to be in, but that new experiences can broaden a person and hopefully help the person grow.

Extreme locations like the deep sea or high mountains, extreme situations like hunger and fatigue, and other extremes of effort can be, I believe, a path to holiness. They can be a route to overcoming the flesh by willpower and expose us to some of the great beauty of creation.

I think frivolous actions that endanger us should be very limited, and never only for personal pleasure, such as smoking or excessive drinking.

well said

 

[Jay2]

I’ve been a “gear-head” since I was 5 years old, and if it’s powered by internal combustion I’m into it. My wife knew this going in (18+ years ago) and tolerates my hobby because she knows it’s something I like.

For my 40th she bought me a day’s session at the Richard Petty Experience.
i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/stuff/th_25d1c651.jpg
After signing about 37 release forms, some physical & verbal instruction, they cut you loose in a full-boogie, 650 HP, NASCAR race machine. You “draft” an instructor around the track for 8 - 10 laps, and the object is to stay with him until you run out of nerve (or reach the limit they impose).

At about lap 4-1/2 I hit cerebral override. Doing 120+ MPH surrounded by concrete & steel barriers, and knowing that the slightest break in concentration could be fatal “Jay the Husband/Father” said “Nope… got too many responsibilities, hold it here and have fun…”. (Jay the Gearhead wanted & could’ve pushed harder and gone much faster…)

I totally (now) understand why people “do” extreme sports. It’s what you enjoy, and you take the necessary precautions. But you also know the risks, and have (hopefully) accepted them with your spouse’s or family’s consent.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

I wonder what true “thrill-seeking” is to some of people?

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For me, if they are looking for a “buzz” near death thrill - that’s not holy, it’s just stupid. Free falls, not using gear, not being fully informed, trained, experienced, prepared and so forth is simply needless danger.

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Now, for me, I would saying it is highly enjoyable to do such activities given the time, proper equipment and training and a healthy respect for my mortality.

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For example, rock climbing with the proper gear, training, and common sense - that’s just an enjoyable way to appreciate the bounty God has provided us in this world.

People that just go off half-baked though, that’s nothing religious or thrilling - it’s just a danged irresponsible thing to do. And long after they are gone, their families will suffer for it.

 

[wupsie50]

Coming from a Rodeo family, I certainly understand the love of the thrill. My brother rode Broncs and I love running barrels. Being stupid and/or being sinful involves knowledge. If proper precautions are taken and an accident happens, that’s one thing. But being intentionally reckless just to prove something is stupid. To take that a step further to intentionally do harm to yourself or to others becomes sinful.

 

[bellesjoy]

Good Question.

I have to say that I would think that uneccesary “risky” behavior would be passing someone around a corner in a no pass zone for the thrill of it. You aren’t taking any safety precautions in this situtation.

My husband and I are both big outdoors people. We do a lot of mountain biking, skiing, kayaking, hiking, camping and yes rock climbing and such. My husband just climbed the Grand Teton in WY last year:thumbsup: . We just went winter camping and backcountry skiing this past weekend. I have to say that although these activities have associated risks, there are many precautions to take to make them safe activities.

Everything you do has associated risks, every time you get in your car, or on a plane, etc, or even sitting in your home 24-7 (like obesity from no exercise) you put yourself at some level of risk.

Just my two cents. I am curious to see how others feel about this too!

My husband and I enjoy many of the same activities that you describe. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder, but I don’t consider any of those, with the exception of rock climbing in certain situations (locations) to be “extreme” sports.

But I know I would never intentionally (althougth we all face the freeways, plane trips routinely) do something that would put my life at risk because I have family to think of first and I see my life as a gift from God, not something to test to the limits just for the personal thrill.

Reasonable people would view climbing Mt. Hood (which is in my backyard), to be extreme, given the weather we have recently had and that which was predicted. At other times perhaps not.

I just don’t see the activity as worth the cost to their families and the loss of their own lives, but continue to keep them in prayer.

 

[stargazer257]

The Mt. Hood story has captivated me for a couple of reasons, it’s relatively close to where I live and I’ve climbed the Cooper Spur route (and others) on Hood near the area where they were. It’s been over a decade since I last trod there, but I can literally picture their exposure and where the lost climbers are predicted to have ended up. Indeed, even the Cooper Spur route (just to the east of where they ascended and where the snow caves were) gets up to 50° steep, and being careless can end one up right where the two lost climbers are believed to be.

Now as for the choice to climb in December, the route they chose (and had the experience to attempt) is NOT a Late-Spring/Summer route (unless one enjoys a barrage of rock fall). It is BEST climbed in winter when it is frozen solid. So they had the experience, the correct equipment, left a visible note with lots of info in their vehicle, etc. and based on this, my opinion was that they were not reckless. Indeed, the three things (my opinion) that conspired to be their undoing was weather that deteriorated quicker and was worse than expected, an unplanned injury, and that (it was reported somewhere) they hadn’t climbed (or descended) Hood by their planned descent route (the south side) before and were therefore unfamiliar with the visual/terrain aspects and clues of their path to safety.

The latest evidence collected by the rescue/recovery teams indicate that all the climbers reached the summit, but when they tried to descend by the relatively easy South side, they couldn’t find the “Pearly Gates” (ironic name, huh?), which is a rock/ice formation that would be their path down. They would have been roped together and even the injured climber (if he had been injured by that time) could have likely been able to descend by this route (others as well as myself have done it rope-free, albeit in better weather). Back on the north side where they camped in the snow caves, the two climbers that left the injured buddy likely got blown off balance by very fierce winds while trying to descend and unfortunately slid down ~2,000 feet to the Elliot Glacier. I would like to believe they will still be found alive, but my better judgment is transitioning to accepting that they didn’t make it safely. Prayers for all of them, and their families too.

Source: katu.com/news/local/4951891.html

Thanks for letting me explain, now to get back to the OP’s question. I think it is immoral if one takes risks beyond their experience and abilities. In the Mt. Hood case, their experience dictated that they “belonged” there. Just bad luck/misfortune befell them. Now if I were to try the same feat, it would be way too risky. My familiarity with the mountain does not give me the experience to tackle such terrain, and therefore if I were to attempt to climb the same route I would deem it immoral. That experience comes with time, training, and small increases in challenge until I am comfortable and prepared for that level of challenge.

I even think about our late-Great Pope, John Paul II, who was an avid mountain climber (skier, kayaker, etc) in his own right. I’m certain he didn’t climb during his papacy with the same vigor and risk as he did during his younger years, but I assume that he took risks, but managed ones.

So I believe if one takes risks they are prepared for, as long as they are not reckless, it is not immoral. The issue of a person who is married/has dependents complicates this a bit, but I believe it just lowers the allowable level of risk by some degree (how much, I don’t know).

 

[lsu]

What if these three men were out drinking and driving would you have post this question?

 

[paramedicgirl]

Coming from a Rodeo family, I certainly understand the love of the thrill. My brother rode Broncs and I love running barrels. Being stupid and/or being sinful involves knowledge. If proper precautions are taken and an accident happens, that’s one thing. But being intentionally reckless just to prove something is stupid. To take that a step further to intentionally do harm to yourself or to others becomes sinful.

Recklessness also breaks the fifth commandment: Thou shall not kill. We have a moral responsibility to care for our bodies, since they are the temple of the Holy Spirit. I dread the judgement a thrill seeker faces if he dies doing a reckless act just for the sake of a thrill.