"Sing a New Church"

[Writer]

I’m just curious as to your thoughts on the course of action we should take if we’re in the choir. I can’t exactly close my hymnal and refuse to sing. I don’t believe our hymnal contains “Sing a New Church”, but I could be mistaken. It seems like a lot of songs we end up singing sound oddly like the songs I used to sing as a protestant. My old parish sang in latin on a fairly regular basis, but I don’t think I’ve sung anything at all in latin since I got to this parish some 6 months ago.



-CK

I’m not a music expert–just someone who’s trying to do something on this particular issue–but this raises some good points. One former Catholic choir director I’ve been in contact with thinks that it’s all well and good to go after hymns like this, but his position is that most (if not all) hymns that we sing are not proper liturigcal music for the Mass. This is why people like this are reluctant to join this effort; in their minds it doesn’t go far enough. If you look at the “Bad Poetry, Bad Theology” article in the November issue of This Rock, see the second sidebar entitled “Why Hymns are at the bottom of the list” for more detailed explanation of this dimension of the issue.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with many of the old hymns–even many of the ones which originate from the Protestant tradition. As the TR article discussed, there are many examples of good hymns out there which originated from Protestant writers and composers–e.g. the Wesley brothers. I’d also add that I believe there are some hymns now identified as Protestant, which actually were composed by Catholics. (I ran into one of these a year, or so, ago, but I don’t have the hymn name handy anymore.) I seriously think we more often have reason to be concerned with many of the newer hymns–even when supposedly from Catholic sources like OCP.

I’d suggest that you check your OCP hymnal for this particular hymn. Either way, though, we’d love to have you join in the letter writing part of it–the more the merrier.

 

[Catholic_Kenpo]

I had choir practice just after I posted that last night, so I checked my hymnal. Much to my dismay, it’s in there. I guess we’ve just been fortunate that thus far, we haven’t been asked to sing it.

Stupid question - what’s OCP?

-CK

 

[benedictgal]

I had choir practice just after I posted that last night, so I checked my hymnal. Much to my dismay, it’s in there. I guess we’ve just been fortunate that thus far, we haven’t been asked to sing it.

Stupid question - what’s OCP?

-CK

It is supposd to mean Oregon Catholic Press.

Now, there is a small ray of hope. I attended the Gateway Liturgical Conference when I was in St. Louis for a Job Corps accreditation meeting. I got to hear and have a private (and brief) Q & A session with Archbishop Malcolm Rajith, the Secretary to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. He talked quite a bit about the ars celebrandi and beauty and how we need to restore it. I asked him after his talk how music comes into play since a lot of it (especially from the OCP end) centers on horizontalism, like “Sing a New Church.” Evidently, Rome has heard simliar concerns. The Archbishop told me that next year (possibly the early part) the Holy See would be issuing a document on music. “This should address your concerns,” was what he told me.

Nonetheless, that shouldn’t preclude us from contacting the publishers. I wonder if any of them and their staffs have read the documents issued by the Holy See and statements made by the late Pope John Paul II.

 

[Writer]

I had choir practice just after I posted that last night, so I checked my hymnal. Much to my dismay, it’s in there. I guess we’ve just been fortunate that thus far, we haven’t been asked to sing it.

Stupid question - what’s OCP?

-CK

Here’s there site.

ocp.org

Not sure what the name stands for. Does anyone else know?

 

[Robster7]

OCP = Oregon Catholic Press

I dislike the song because it has the warm, fuzzy, “We Are the World” (WATW) feeling to it. If you remember in the late 80s early 90s, there were several songs like this where a bunch of celebrities would get together and sing a song, the proceeds of which would benefit some worthy cause, in WATW, world hunger.

The main critcism I would have of songs of this type would be it doesn’t just stroke or tug at the heartstrings, it stretches them out like mozzarella off a pizza, or swiss cheese off the top of French onion soup.

Music should stimulate somehow, but not this way.

BTW, I am not all out against Haugen, Haas, Farrell & Co. Some contemporary songs are good: Good scripturally or doctrinally legit lyrics set to good music. St Thomas More group is pretty good too. Dan Schutte at times.

Anyway, my opinion is that as long as the text is scripturally and doctrinally accurate, and the music to which it is set is good, that’s the main thing. Some people seem to insist a certain musical style (greg. chant, trad. solemn hymn, contemporary worship song) is exclusively appropriate for worship. I don’t entirely agree.

Ideally, music is part of worship and an aid to it. Insofar as it enhances this (e.g., a song based on a psalm enhances one’s appreciation of it, whereas reading would not do so as well), that is good.

For some folks, a certain musical style may be more accessible to them than another, and they would more likely to appreciate the lyrics if it is done in that style. So I think in general, almost any type of musical style, insofar as it is directed at worship of God, can be Good.

Language in worship, insofar as one understands it, can enhance worship as well. Since I understand English, I can understand the liturgy in English much more directly than otherwise. So it is with musical “language,” i.e., musical style.

In and of themselves, language and musical style in worship are neutral; it is how they are used that makes them good or bad.

 

[Writer]

It is supposd to mean Oregon Catholic Press.

Now, there is a small ray of hope. I attended the Gateway Liturgical Conference when I was in St. Louis for a Job Corps accreditation meeting. I got to hear and have a private (and brief) Q & A session with Archbishop Malcolm Rajith, the Secretary to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. He talked quite a bit about the ars celebrandi and beauty and how we need to restore it. I asked him after his talk how music comes into play since a lot of it (especially from the OCP end) centers on horizontalism, like “Sing a New Church.” Evidently, Rome has heard simliar concerns. The Archbishop told me that next year (possibly the early part) the Holy See would be issuing a document on music. “This should address your concerns,” was what he told me.

Nonetheless, that shouldn’t preclude us from contacting the publishers. I wonder if any of them and their staffs have read the documents issued by the Holy See and statements made by the late Pope John Paul II.

That is indeed encouraging news. Thank you for sharing this good news.

 

[sidonius]

I’m just curious as to your thoughts on the course of action we should take if we’re in the choir. I can’t exactly close my hymnal and refuse to sing. I don’t believe our hymnal contains “Sing a New Church”, but I could be mistaken. It seems like a lot of songs we end up singing sound oddly like the songs I used to sing as a protestant. My old parish sang in latin on a fairly regular basis, but I don’t think I’ve sung anything at all in latin since I got to this parish some 6 months ago.



-CK

I would discuss with the choirmaster at a convenient time. He/she may agree with you.

 

[Writer]

I’ve mentioned to some of you perhaps that I was exploring the idea of obtaining support of some kind from K of C on this issue. I received an extraordinarily kind reply today from the Assistant to the Supreme Knight, Knights of Columbus in which he said that this is not likely a possibility for them to make a public stand on this hymn, but he took pains to make sure that we understood the great importance and care associated with any liturgical music selected for the Supreme Convention masses broadcasted on EWTN. They certainly sympathize and understand our frustration, however.

 

[Robster7]

I went to Sunday mass at a different parish that I believe is more orthodox. As I’m walking in, I hear the strains of “Sing a New Church!” Yikes!

 

[Writer]

If there is anyone else out there who feels comfortable writing a letter on this particular hymn, the Archdiocese of Portland has given me this address (instead of the earlier e-mail address for their Communications contact).

Archbishop John G. Vlazny
Pastoral Center
2838 E. Burnside St.
Portland, OR 97214

I am told that our Archbishop Vlazny does serve on a committee with regards to OCP hymns, and that he plays some part in the review process. That’s not to say, however, that he had anything to do with approving "Sing a New Church.’ I don’t have the publication date handy, but it would likely have been one of his predecessors. (He’s been in this position since 1997.)

 

[FrDavid96]

If there is anyone else out there who feels comfortable writing a letter on this particular hymn, the Archdiocese of Portland has given me this address (instead of the earlier e-mail address for their Communications contact).

Archbishop John G. Vlazny
Pastoral Center
2838 E. Burnside St.
Portland, OR 97214

I am told that our Archbishop Vlazny does serve on a committee with regards to OCP hymns, and that he plays some part in the review process. That’s not to say, however, that he had anything to do with approving "Sing a New Church.’ I don’t have the publication date handy, but it would likely have been one of his predecessors. (He’s been in this position since 1997.)

Let’s keep in mind that the archbishop could be in a difficult position. To say that something outright contradicts the faith is a very strong statement and one which bishops make with the utmost restraint. Bishops often reluctantly give official approval to something that they do not like, or do not “personally approve of” because there’s nothing that definately contradicts the faith.

I believe that the OCP publications have an Imprimatur. That does not necessarily mean the bishop “approves” of them, it simply means that there is nothing that outright contradicts the faith–the difference is subtle yet important. I don’t know what his personal thoughts are, so let no one take this post to imply that I’m claiming I do.

 

[benedictgal]

Let’s keep in mind that the archbishop could be in a difficult position. To say that something outright contradicts the faith is a very strong statement and one which bishops make with the utmost restraint. Bishops often reluctantly give official approval to something that they do not like, or do not “personally approve of” because there’s nothing that definately contradicts the faith.

I believe that the OCP publications have an Imprimatur. That does not necessarily mean the bishop “approves” of them, it simply means that there is nothing that outright contradicts the faith–the difference is subtle yet important. I don’t know what his personal thoughts are, so let no one take this post to imply that I’m claiming I do.

I don’t think that the latest songbooks do. I looked for one when I perused through my parish’s arsenal.

Now, there is something very serious going on within OCP’s collection, especially where the Spanish music is concerned. The publishing house is ignoring the basic tenent of Liturgiam Authenticam when it comes to the Spanish parts of the Mass.

Fr. David, I don’t know if you know Spanish, but, if you were to hold the OCP versions of the Gloria side by side with the approved text of the Spanish Roman Missal, you will find that the OCP version of the Gloria is missing several chunks, including the references to God the Father and the two instances of the Holy Name of Jesus Christ. Even their English settings add things to the Amen and paraphrase the Agnus Dei. Bob Hurd’s bilingual Missa del Pueblo Immigrante has a horrid rendition of the Agnus Dei. It is contrary to the norms.

One of their Spanish songs, Pueblos Nuevos (also known as either Hombres Nuevos or Danos un Corazon) is heavily tinged with liberation theology, a heresy condemned by the former Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (who now happens to be Pope Benedict XVI).

The bottom line is that if you think Sing a New Church is bad, leaf through the Spanish song books.

 

[Writer]

I don’t think that the latest songbooks do. I looked for one when I perused through my parish’s arsenal.

Now, there is something very serious going on within OCP’s collection, especially where the Spanish music is concerned. The publishing house is ignoring the basic tenent of Liturgiam Authenticam when it comes to the Spanish parts of the Mass.

Fr. David, I don’t know if you know Spanish, but, if you were to hold the OCP versions of the Gloria side by side with the approved text of the Spanish Roman Missal, you will find that the OCP version of the Gloria is missing several chunks, including the references to God the Father and the two instances of the Holy Name of Jesus Christ. Even their English settings add things to the Amen and paraphrase the Agnus Dei. Bob Hurd’s bilingual Missa del Pueblo Immigrante has a horrid rendition of the Agnus Dei. It is contrary to the norms.

One of their Spanish songs, Pueblos Nuevos (also known as either Hombres Nuevos or Danos un Corazon) is heavily tinged with liberation theology, a heresy condemned by the former Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (who now happens to be Pope Benedict XVI).

The bottom line is that if you think Sing a New Church is bad, leaf through the Spanish song books.

That’s very interesting. Thanks for posting this. Do you know where I could get a copy of the Spanish version online? If not, I’ll see what we have at church.

 

[benedictgal]

That’s very interesting. Thanks for posting this. Do you know where I could get a copy of the Spanish version online? If not, I’ll see what we have at church.

I am afraid that you would have to order it, unless you can see if your parish or local Catholic bookstore has a copy of Flor y Canto.

 

[Writer]

The Archbishop for the Diocese of Portland wrote me a very nice letter about this issue, but it really just scratched the surface of most of the concerns we raised. His main point is that “new” refers to the renewal called for by Vatican II. I respectfully don’t quite see it the same way. Because of some family health reasons, however, I will be taking a break on this particular issue for a while. At some future date, I might decide to adapt my letter to the archbishop to more of an article format–but that is not likely to be for a month or two–or more.

Hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving!

 

[Writer]

I thought I’d re-visit this old thread to mention that my essay “Reflections on a Hymn” will be published in the Church Music Association of America’s Sacred Music (coming Fall 2009). Its primary focus is addressing bad liturgical music such as “Sing a New Church.” The writer of the hymn, Delores Dufner, also graciously shared some observations as did Professor Anthony Esolen who has been featured in This Rock and Touchstone magazines (among others).

 

[Lepanto]

“Sing a New Church”

The world does not need yet another Protestant denomination.

 

[Anonymousanonym]

I’ve just been to Mass and this song at first seemed catchy. I did not sing - I never sing because I sound like I’m choking when I sing - but it is stuck in my head. It is very catchy. What can I do about this? I don’t want this kind of song polluting my praise of God, how can I change the singing of this song in Mass?

 

[DeaconsSon87]

I’ve just been to Mass and this song at first seemed catchy. I did not sing - I never sing because I sound like I’m choking when I sing - but it is stuck in my head. It is very catchy. What can I do about this? I don’t want this kind of song polluting my praise of God, how can I change the singing of this song in Mass?

It’s the tune…just sing the lyrics of “God We Praise You” (basically the Te Deum)…a MUCH better and more orthodox hymn.

As Archbishop Dolan said in a"Some Seed Fell On Good Ground" weekly blog in his last year as my bishop:
Archbishop Dolan:

Sorry, but we don’t “Sing a new Church into being” at all. We hum in gratitude at the one we got, and have had for two millenia.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Speaking of Flor y Canto, does anyone know of any other orthodox Spanish music resource available in the United States? The only one I found was a Mexican hymnal, printed (poorly) in Mexico City, which contained beautiful, traditional Spanish hymns, but it cannot be gotten here.