Sinning While We Sleep?

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by Rascalking
How in the world can you sin while asleep?

Some of the responses, like this one, seem to demonstrate how some people don’t have aclear idea of what sin is.
Sin is less about the action than it is about the thoughts behind the action.
Culpability for these thoughts and subsequent actions depends on ones ability to control them using the higher functions of reason.

Someone who is asleep is functioning in a very different and irrational world than one who is awake.
If a person, in a dream state, has the presence of mind to recognize that something is sinful and they do it anyway, then perhaps some culpability would attach. But then they would have to remember that this occurred when they awaken so that they can confess it. However most people, myself included, do not remember their dreams that well so cannot be sure what they actually thought during a dream.

So - overall we have to conclude that, those in a dream state, do not have enough control over their thoughts to incurr culpabiblity for the sin (if there is one). The best we can conclude is that such sins, if recurring in the dream stae, can point to areas where we might need to focus prayer and effort to overcome (such as issues of violence or anger).

Peace
James

 

[LittleSoldier]

Some of the responses, like this one, seem to demonstrate how some people don’t have aclear idea of what sin is.
Sin is less about the action than it is about the thoughts behind the action.
Culpability for these thoughts and subsequent actions depends on ones ability to control them using the higher functions of reason.

Someone who is asleep is functioning in a very different and irrational world than one who is awake.
If a person, in a dream state, has the presence of mind to recognize that something is sinful and they do it anyway, then perhaps some culpability would attach. But then they would have to remember that this occurred when they awaken so that they can confess it. However most people, myself included, do not remember their dreams that well so cannot be sure what they actually thought during a dream.

So - overall we have to conclude that, those in a dream state, do not have enough control over their thoughts to incurr culpabiblity for the sin (if there is one). The best we can conclude is that such sins, if recurring in the dream stae, can point to areas where we might need to focus prayer and effort to overcome (such as issues of violence or anger).

Peace
James

I agree. I think you’ve summed it up very well.

 

[Doc_Keele]

Actually what a sleepwalker does is not an action in the technical sense of the word, sleepwalkers are not actors but automatons.

 

[quasimodo]

So, does Freddy Kreuger sin in someone else’s dreams. This is an important question.

 

[LittleSoldier]

So, does Freddy Kreuger sin in someone else’s dreams. This is an important question.

Well, yeah if he were real he would sin because he would have powers that normal people don’t have and he would use their dreams as the medium for killing them. But he wouldn’t be dreaming - he would be going into someone else’s dream. That someone else wouldn’t be able to sin.

It seems to me that, even though I don’t sin while dreaming, I certainly do perform actions which appear to be bizarre and immoral. If I had a gun and had an attack of sleep paralysis and whatever else is part of my sleep disorder (because obviously if I’m walking around I’m not paralyzed, which is the normal way to be during REM sleep) and shot a person, dreaming that the person is an intruder, I’m certainly not culpable. But the person I shot is still dead.

Maybe I would be culpable for just having the gun in the first place because I’m very aware that if I had a gun I would probably shoot someone (maybe myself).

So if we know that we might do something in our sleep (like shoot or strangle someone) we would be sinning if we didn’t take precautions to keep those awful things from happening. And to me, that means not owning a gun or sleeping with a rock hammer or a knife under my pillow. It would be like a person getting drunk and driving and crashing into another car, killing the driver. The drunk person is sinning because he is drunk and driving, not just because he’s driving.

I’m not explaining this very well, but it’s the best I can do right now. Sorry…

Holy Mother, please keep us all
in your prayers.

 

[sinnerdexter]

At least 2% of people exhibit violent behaviour during sleep

What are the possible causes for this?

 

[Doc_Keele]

What are the possible causes for this?

Sleep walking, RBD, night terrors, cross-over parasomnia, confusional arousals, nocturnal epilepsy…

 

[LittleSoldier]

Sleep walking, RBD, night terrors, cross-over parasomnia, confusional arousals, nocturnal epilepsy…

I don’t know if what I have is common, but I obviously do some mean things during my sleep. So I wonder how many people actually kill someone else when they’re asleep (I mean the killer) and really have no control over it at all.

There was a case in the USA where a man killed his wife (I think he drowned her in their pool) and they used “sleep disorder” as a defense. The jury didn’t buy it and he was found guilty. One of the problems with the defense is that they couldn’t explain why the defendant engaged in behaviors that a guilty person would engage in, after the “killing.”

This case was on public television and I watched it because this sort of thing fascinates me. I thought it was very possible that he did have a sleep disorder. What I saw during the case was a horrible lack of knowledge among both the prosecution and the defense. It was like us discussing this, except here we have someone who knows something about it. They had their “experts” who didn’t appear to be expert at anything.

So it turned into a little debate about sleep disorders among non-experts and the defendant never had a chance. Of course he could have been guilty for all I know. But it seemed strange to me that no “expert” could testify as to what really happens during the type of sleep disorder the defense was claiming. And that’s the same thing I’ve noticed while trying to find help for myself. Nobody knows what they’re doing!

Ave Maria! Sancta Maria,
mater dei, ora pro nobis.

 

[Doc_Keele]

Is it the Phoenix case that you’re referring to? He was repairing the pool motor in his sleep?

Most people find it hard to believe what someone can do in their sleep. The problem in sleepwalking and other parasomnias is that part of the brain is clearly working, allowing the performance of relatively complex tasks, and other parts that involve recognition of faces for example are not.