Sitting at Alleluya

[JurisPrudens]

I like the traditional Mass very much. However, there are some things that look awkward to me. For example, unlike the modern Mass, people are allowed to sit when the Alleluya is chanted before the Gospel. It seems illogical to me, as Alleluya is one of the strongest words to praise the Lord.

 

[R_H_Benson]

Better than standing for the reception of Holy Communion though, no?

It’s a good question. I know that there are no “rubrics” for the posture of the laity at the TLM. It is governed by local custom. That said, maybe it is only an American thing to sit for the “Alleluia”? I’m not sure. The priest does recite it one our behalf as he reads it quietly before chanting the Gospel.

 

[JurisPrudens]

Better than standing for the reception of Holy Communion though, no?

It’s a good question. I know that there are no “rubrics” for the posture of the laity at the TLM. It is governed by local custom. That said, maybe it is only an American thing to sit for the “Alleluia”? I’m not sure. The priest does recite it one our behalf as he reads it quietly before chanting the Gospel.

I have been to TLMs in Russia and the U.K. - everyone sits at the Alleluia. And I have only been to Sung and Solemn Masses so far, not Low Masses.

As far as reception of the Holy Communion goes: I don’t think doing it while standing is irreverent, as long as you make a profound bow or genuflection before. It is receiving that in hand, I think, is irreverent, as it contradicts the practice of St. John Chrysostome and may cause the profanation of the parts of the Host.

 

[baliano]

I have been to TLMs in Russia and the U.K. - everyone sits at the Alleluia. And I have only been to Sung and Solemn Masses so far, not Low Masses.

As far as reception of the Holy Communion goes: I don’t think doing it while standing is irreverent, as long as you make a profound bow or genuflection before. It is receiving that in hand, I think, is irreverent, as it contradicts the practice of St. John Chrysostome and may cause the profanation of the parts of the Host.

Kneeling to receive communion is an expression of reverence, positions us better both for the priest and the paten and reduces the chance a host may be dropped.

 

[ProVobis]

I like the traditional Mass very much. However, there are some things that look awkward to me. For example, unlike the modern Mass, people are allowed to sit when the Alleluya is chanted before the Gospel. It seems illogical to me, as Alleluya is one of the strongest words to praise the Lord.

And at Low Mass, they kneel while the Alleluia is recited.

 

[OraLabora]

At the OF at the local abbey, one sits, through the first singing of the alleluia, and through the psalm verse that follows it. Then one rises for the repeat of the singing of the Alleluia, while the deacon carries the Gospel to the ambo.

In the OF Mass sung according the Graduale Romanum, instead of the responsorial psalm and the Gradual during Eastertide, an alleluia with verse is sung between the first and second readings. One sits entirely through that one.

 

[liturgyluver]

I always thought people were supposed to stand when the Gospeller picks up the Gospel and then turns to face the people to proceed to the Ambo, not at the chant of the Alleluia.

 

[Sunbreak]

It may be because in the TLM the gospel does not necessarily follow the Allelulia immediately. My old St. Joseph missal says that at a non-solemn Mass, the priest, bowing at the center of the altar says the prayer: Cleanse My Heart. Then comes the phrases: “Lord grant Your blessing. The Lord be in my heart and on my lips, that I may worthily and fittingly prolcaim His holy Gospel. Amen.” Then comes the Gospel where the people are to stand.

 

[Sunbreak]

I know that there are no “rubrics” for the posture of the laity at the TLM. It is governed by local custom.

No, this is not true. My St. Joseph Missal from the early 1960s does have instructions for posture and it doesn’t say stand until the gospel.

 

[corsair]

I agree with R.H. Benson. There are no rubrics for the laity in the EF. How do I know this? I just asked my FSSP priest. There are local customs and they do vary from region to region.

As for the comment about the missal from the early 1960"s, well there were a lot of off the wall things printed back then and way back into the 1940’s. Some printers place “rubrics” that weren’t really official. (just guide lines for the laity).

 

[ProVobis]

I agree with R.H. Benson. There are no rubrics for the laity in the EF. How do I know this? I just asked my FSSP priest. There are local customs and they do vary from region to region.

As for the comment about the missal from the early 1960"s, well there were a lot of off the wall things printed back then and way back into the 1940’s. Some printers place “rubrics” that weren’t really official. (just guide lines for the laity).

Not only that but the St. Joseph MIssal suppressed the Latin propers so it was difficult to even follow the chanted Alleluia using that missal.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

No, this is not true. My St. Joseph Missal from the early 1960s does have instructions for posture and it doesn’t say stand until the gospel.

As an outgrowth of the liturgical movement, which had been active in the Europe of the 20th century before the Council, one would begin seeing in places notations for posture. The Council Fathers addressed this in Sacrosanctum Concilium:
31. The revision of the liturgical books must carefully attend to the provision of rubrics also for the people’s parts.

 

[Phemie]

I agree with R.H. Benson. There are no rubrics for the laity in the EF. How do I know this? I just asked my FSSP priest. There are local customs and they do vary from region to region.

As for the comment about the missal from the early 1960"s, well there were a lot of off the wall things printed back then and way back into the 1940’s. Some printers place “rubrics” that weren’t really official. (just guide lines for the laity).

The St. Joseph Missal still does that. The Canadian version instructs us to kneel after the Agnus Dei. The CCCB, OTOH, has retained the Universal GIRM posture of kneeling only for the Consecration – although allowing that in parishes where kneeling for the entire Eucharistic Prayer and after the Agnus Dei was practiced it is laudable to continue doing so.

 

[ProVobis]

The St. Joseph Missal still does that. The Canadian version instructs us to kneel after the Agnus Dei. The CCCB, OTOH, has retained the Universal GIRM posture of kneeling only for the Consecration – although allowing that in parishes where kneeling for the entire Eucharistic Prayer and after the Agnus Dei was practiced it is laudable to continue doing so.

But didn’t they make standing mandatory for the Sanctus and Agnus Dei? This was a change from common practice at the time.

 

[Phemie]

But didn’t they make standing mandatory for the Sanctus and Agnus Dei? This was a change from common practice at the time.

Standing has been the posture for the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei since at least 1975. I don’t recall ever being in a parish where we knelt for those and being military I’ve been in parishes across the country and back again. It’s the posture in the Universal GIRM.

Although the 1975 GIRM called for kneeling only at the Consecration, what we did after the Sanctus and after the Agnus Dei depended on the parish. I’ve been in parishes where we knelt from the Epiclesis until the Amen; from after the Epiclesis to the Amen, from the Epiclesis to the Mystery of Faith (by far the most common practice I’ve encountered), and, in this latest parish until recently, no kneeling at all for at least 13 years.

 

[corsair]

The GIRM has nothing to do with the EF Mass. It applies only to the OF Mass. We are not to mix the two forms of the Rite.

 

[Phemie]

The GIRM has nothing to do with the EF Mass. It applies only to the OF Mass. We are not to mix the two forms of the Rite.

I know. Those few responses were an offshoot of the post about the St. Joseph missal dictating postures where there were no particular posture officially required.

 

[twf]

Better than standing for the reception of Holy Communion though, no?

It’s a good question. I know that there are no “rubrics” for the posture of the laity at the TLM. It is governed by local custom. That said, maybe it is only an American thing to sit for the “Alleluia”? I’m not sure. The priest does recite it one our behalf as he reads it quietly before chanting the Gospel.

At my cathedral people kneel to receive holy communion at every OF mass. This is also true in other parishes I’m familiar with. Kneeling to receive is not strictly an EF thing.
I have great appreciation for the EF mass, but I also find it odd that we sit while the choir is still singing the Gloria, Credo etc…

 

[twf]

The St. Joseph Missal still does that. The Canadian version instructs us to kneel after the Agnus Dei. The CCCB, OTOH, has retained the Universal GIRM posture of kneeling only for the Consecration – although allowing that in parishes where kneeling for the entire Eucharistic Prayer and after the Agnus Dei was practiced it is laudable to continue doing so.

In the Archdiocese of Vancouver it is the universal practice to kneel throughout the entire EP and again after the Agnus Dei. I don’t know if this is mandated by the archbishop or simply custom, but it’s true in every one of the many parishes I’ve visited over the past decade.

 

[ProVobis]

At my cathedral people kneel to receive holy communion at every OF mass. This is also true in other parishes I’m familiar with. Kneeling to receive is not strictly an EF thing.
I have great appreciation for the EF mass, but I also find it odd that we sit while the choir is still singing the Gloria, Credo etc…

We follow the priest’s lead in this, which incidentally the only time he sits at an EF.