Sleeping apostles

[asd72]

I have noticed doing the Rosary that at the transfiguration…

'The apostles were ‘heavy with sleep, but they kept awake’ ( Luke 22:32)

Also at the agony in the garden…

‘When he rose from pray he found them sleeping for sheer grief’ (Luke 22:45)

I was wondering does anyone know if there is a spiritual significance with the sleepiness and any connection between the sleepiness in these two passages?

 

[NotWorthy]

I have noticed doing the Rosary that at the transfiguration…

'The apostles were ‘heavy with sleep, but they kept awake’ ( Luke 22:32)

Also at the agony in the garden…

‘When he rose from pray he found them sleeping for sheer grief’ (Luke 22:45)

I was wondering does anyone know if there is a spiritual significance with the sleepiness and any connection between the sleepiness in these two passages?

I remember hearing a talk on this. Look at Luke’s Gospel during the latter time of Jesus’ Gospel and he emphasizes that they should “Watch” many times. This was also something the Israelites were supposed to do during the first Passover in Exodus. Now, it is the new Passover and the Apostles are supposed to keep watch… and yet they fail. I’ll see if I can find the references in a way that is more precise.

 

[TimothyH]

Luke 22:32 isn’t about the transfiguration. Its about Peters denial. The transfiguration is Luke 9.

And behold, two men were conversing with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem. Peter and his companions had been overcome by sleep, but becoming fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men standing with him. (Luke 9:30:32)

So now that you have asked the question, my mind is racing… The question about sleep is interesting, one which I hadn’t throught of. In reading Luke 9 and John 6, I see parallels with bread/manna and when the Apostles sleep, but then again, I see parallels between bread, manna and the Eucharist with everything else on every page in the Bible.

I remember hearing a talk on this. Look at Luke’s Gospel during the latter time of Jesus’ Gospel and he emphasizes that they should “Watch” many times. This was also something the Israelites were supposed to do during the first Passover in Exodus. Now, it is the new Passover and the Apostles are supposed to keep watch… and yet they fail. I’ll see if I can find the references in a way that is more precise.

This is significant, NotWorthy.

Jesus was seen by the Jews as the new Moses, the “prophet, the one who has come into the world” (John 6:14). As the new Moses, Jesus was to bring back the supernatural manna which was stored in heaven from the time of Adam and Eve before sin entered the world, which God had given Israel during the Exodus. This is why, after miraculously feeding the crowd with bread in John 6 and Luke 9, the crowd wanted to “carry him off to make him king” (John 6:15).

Luke follows the feeding of the five thousand (Luke 9:16) immediately with Peters confession (Luke 9:20),. Luke records the transfiguration of Jesus next (Luke 9:29:30), immediately following these events. In the transfiguration, Jesus is seen in dazzling white, conversing with the Old Moses about the “Exodus” he was to acomplish. Here we find the Apostles asleep.

John follows the feeding of the five thousand (John 6:11) bread of life discourse. But I notice that John has the Apostles asleep in the garden, right after Jesus consumates what he said in the Bread of Life discourse at the Last Supper, where he celebrated the first Eucharist.

In both cases, the Apostles sleep after a significant “Bread” event, signifying the return of the heavenly manna through the “New Moses.” The link to “Keeping watch” during the passover is certain now in my mind, hence the close connection to the new manna, Moses and the new exodus.

-Tim-

 

[Crumpy]

Yes, it’s an interesting subject – hand-picked apostles yet sleeping. Certainly emphasizes the utter loneliness of Jesus in Gethsemane.

One source mentions that only Luke gives the reason for the apostles sleepiness – anxiety. This is attributed to Luke’s medical orientation.

We recall the incident of the cross of the Sea of Galilee, where Jesus was sleeping in the boat but the apostles were full of anxiety about the storm about them. They asked Jesus how he could sleep at a time like that (if I recall). Now, in Luke, the situation is reversed, and Jesus is asking them why they are asleep. The apostles are not strong enough to follow the Passover tradition of staying awake. Perhaps they are not alerted enough to understand what is coming next for Jesus.

 

[DaveBj]

I’ve never been able to understand the “sleeping from grief” reference. Grief is something that is upsetting, and when I’m upset, I can’t get to sleep without either chemical help or some serious mental discipline to turn my mind away from what I’m upset/grieving about.

 

[DaveBj]

I’ve never been able to understand the “sleeping from grief” reference. Grief is something that is upsetting, and when I’m upset, I can’t get to sleep without either chemical help or some serious mental discipline to turn my mind away from what I’m upset/grieving about.

I know, it’s bad form to quote yourself, but less than two yours after I typed that post, I was reading in today’s sports section about Tyler Faraar, the American cyclist who won yesterday’s stage of the Tour de France. He lost his best friend, Belgian rider Wouter Weylandt, in a bike crash during the Giro d’Italia. Tyler stopped riding, and was sleeping 20 hours a day–from grief.

Bottom line: Don’t listen to me. What do I know?

(Nice comeback, though. And for an American rider to win a stage on the 4th of July…)

 

[asd72]

I have been reading about night watches.

It seems the night was divided into 3 watches in Jewish history, and I think about 60 bc Romans divided it into 4 watches.

Something I found interesting; We know Jesus predicted Peter would deny him 3 times before the cock crows.

Apparently the 3rd watch ended at 3am, and it was marked by a trumpet call which was referred to as a cockcrow. I don’t know about anyone else, but I thought it referred to a bird crowing in the morning!

It seems it was at the witching hour, the opposite to the hour of mercy when Jesus died.

 

[asd72]

I remember hearing a talk on this. Look at Luke’s Gospel during the latter time of Jesus’ Gospel and he emphasizes that they should “Watch” many times. This was also something the Israelites were supposed to do during the first Passover in Exodus. Now, it is the new Passover and the Apostles are supposed to keep watch… and yet they fail. I’ll see if I can find the references in a way that is more precise.

Yes you are right. From what I have read it is a type of night vigil.

‘The time the people of Israel lived in Egypt was 430 years. At the end of 430 years, on that very day, all the hosts of the LORD, when out from the land of Egypt; so this same night is a night of watching kept to the LORD by all the people of Israel throughout their generations.’ (Exodus 12:40-42)

 

[ryanoneil]

I have noticed doing the Rosary that at the transfiguration…

'The apostles were ‘heavy with sleep, but they kept awake’ ( Luke 22:32)

Also at the agony in the garden…

‘When he rose from pray he found them sleeping for sheer grief’ (Luke 22:45)

I was wondering does anyone know if there is a spiritual significance with the sleepiness and any connection between the sleepiness in these two passages?

In Mt 26:41 Jesus says the flesh is weak. Maybe if they had been watching and praying better they wouldn’t have given into their temptations and slept for sorrow. They were privileged to be with Jesus during his time of distress but they blew it.

 

[byeveryword]

Very powerful portion of scripture for reflection. These are strictly my own reflections.

The garden of Gethsemane means ‘wine press’. Jesus and his disciples were in the garden on Passover around midnight, at which time our Lord Jesus quotes from the Tanach: “Arise O sword, and strike the shepherd and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.”

The scripture quotation by our Lord Jesus is followed by this statement of our Lord’s:
“My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even as unto death”. It is very possible that God’s firstborn son was struck down with the sins of the world at this hour. The sins of disobedience that had begun in the garden of Eden.

This may have been the very hour at which the firstborn of Egypt were struck down by the sword of the angel of the Lord on the first Passover when Israel was in the bondage of Egypt.

The suffering of our Lord may have been so great, that it causes our Lord to pray to His Father, “If it is possible let this cup pass from me, nevertheless, not my will, but Thy will be done.”

The weight of the world’s sins was so great that his soul was pressed down and our Lord Jesus Christ sweat drops of blood. The disciples may have been affected with grief and sleep.

It is important to remember that when we are afflicted with unexplainable grief at times, that we may be sharing in the suffering of our Lord Jesus Christ, for the sins of disobedience. We must not become discouraged, but remain prayerful in faith.