Slippery slope of "greater good" in our actions

[Novila]

Let’s discuss the slippery slope of arguing for the greater good in our way of life. Who qualifies as the greater, and does this mean there is always a… lesser? Is this the same as majority rules? Does that justify certain policies or sanctions? Here are two issues close to my heart that I’ll use to detail the question:

Why does the “greater good” argument apply to the vaccine debate but not to the confidence of confession? In other words, why must I be obligated to have my children vaccinated with aborted fetal cells for the greater good (cancer patients, for instance, who cannot receive vaccines), while we say priests should not be obligated to report abuse confessions to authorities for the greater good (of abused children, for instance) because it violates the sanctity of the confessional? Are not both “moral obligations (to vaccinate and to report) for the greater good”? Moreover, is not the argument for the “greater good” a socialist one? Example: violent crime in America has decreased since the 1970’s, which may or may not be a result of the Roe vs. Wade case that began permitting abortions of “unwanted” children. Is it not a socialist argument for the greater good to then continue permitting abortion due to this social improvement?

How are we to live as Catholics and promote (or enforce, as California would have it) the greater good, or perhaps the good of the “greater” part of humanity?

 

[GraceJ]

Actually, in regards to the sanctity of the confessional, I believe that if someone is in danger and needs outside intervention, then the priest is allowed to break the seal. I.e., if a guy confesses that he is sexually abusing his child, then the priest may report that guy for the good of both.
And the decrease in crime is more likely due to a rise in security cameras, systems; also better forensics. Not abortion.

 

[Magnanimity]

Moreover, is not the argument for the “greater good” a socialist one?

Not precisely–it is a utilitarian/consequentialist argument. It just so happens that this particular branch of ethics (which arose in the Modern Era-J.S. Mill) may be the only one compatible with socialism.

Are not both “moral obligations (to vaccinate and to report) for the greater good”?

Yes, they are. That is why we even have mandatory reporters of sexual abuse in the U.S. (therapists, teachers, etc). Much more argumentation would have to be done to convince the church that having priests be just like every other category of mandatory reporters would serve the greater good.

First, if it were generally known that there is absolutely no professional individual whom you could tell about your abuse of a vulnerable individual, then, if anything, this would seem to increase the likelihood that abusers would take these sins to their graves, which could lead to even less admissions of these terrible crimes. Second, there is nothing to stop a priest from telling the abuser that he needs to self-report his crime to law enforcement in an effort to begin some sort of restitution/healing process for the victim and the abuser.

Example: violent crime in America has decreased since the 1970’s, which may or may not be a result of the Roe vs. Wade case that began permitting abortions of “unwanted” children.

Plenty more argumentation would be needed here as well. One would have to plausibly show a one-to-one correspondence between the increase in abortions and a decrease in violent crime. As in, one would need to demonstrate why a person should believe that the two phenomena are in any way related to one another. (Also, of course, the statistics would need to bear out the assertions here. As I recall, violent crime in the 80’s in places like NYC was through the roof. Violent crime today in Chicago is through the roof. Have abortions been performed consistently in Chicago since Roe v Wade? Yes. So…?)

Just some food for thought.

 

[Cruciferi]

I believe that if someone is in danger and needs outside intervention, then the priest is allowed to break the seal. I.e., if a guy confesses that he is sexually abusing his child, then the priest may report that guy for the good of both.

Incorrect.

The Priest may under certain circumstances withhold Absolution but he cannot violate the Seal of Confession.

 

[Beryllos]

Example: violent crime in America has decreased since the 1970’s

This is due in part to the removal of lead from gasoline and paint. There is a link between low-level lead poisoning and violent behavior, and lead exposure has declined.

I am not saying this is the only factor. There have been many changes over the same period of time.

 

[Beryllos]

Let’s discuss the slippery slope of arguing for the greater good in our way of life.

Okay, but perhaps we should review Catholic social teaching. The Church speaks well of the common good. The problem is that people have different ideas of what constitutes the greater or common good.

Let’s read a few passages from the Catechism.

1906 By common good is to be understood “the sum total of social conditions which allow people, either as groups or as individuals, to reach their fulfillment more fully and more easily.” The common good concerns the life of all. It calls for prudence from each, and even more from those who exercise the office of authority. It consists of three essential elements :

1907 First, the common good presupposes respect for the person as such. In the name of the common good, public authorities are bound to respect the fundamental and inalienable rights of the human person…

1908 Second, the common good requires the social well-being and development of the group itself…

1909 Finally, the common good requires peace , that is, the stability and security of a just order…

[ … ]

1912 The common good is always oriented towards the progress of persons: “The order of things must be subordinate to the order of persons, and not the other way around.” This order is founded on truth, built up in justice, and animated by love.

 

[Beryllos]

As I understand it, the problem with socialism and communism was that they put the collective good, or the good of society, above the good of the person. This goes against CCC 1907 and 1912 above.

What is called socialism these days is not the same thing. Unfortunately the media and politics tend to label as socialism anything that benefits those in need, if those well-off are expected to pay for it. It is unfortunate that care of the poor is seen merely as a financial burden, and not an opportunity to love and serve.

 

[Dovekin]

The seal of the confessional actually is a greater good argument. It is better for society if sociopaths have a place where they can confess and be helped to reform their lives. If there is no way for them to confess, there is no way they can be helped.

I am not saying that it is a good argument, just that privacy in confession is seen as benefitting society.

 

[Novila]

I like this reply, it’s outside the box. Thanks.