So a few days back i had posted a question that my hindu friend had asked me. This is a continuation of that. I would love for you guys to give your t

[Aquinasthegreat1]

The Post is quite lengthy but, i hope you guys can provide me a proper explanation regarding this and why he (my hindu friend) should consider Catholicism rather than Hinduism.

This is exactly what he said - "At first I would like to tell you that Satana Dharma is not a single concept or absolute like Christianity but rather a set of teachings and philosophies and it is upto you to take them as you want. There is no hard and fast rule to follow.

The concept of Sanatan Dharma is that of a Seekers and less of a Sinners. As you said that “Christianity, on the other hand, bases everything on your relationship to god” in Sanatan Dharma it is believed that you are a part of god rather than being created by him and are immortal but this is not about this body but about the aatma(soul) which is amar(immortal). We consider everything to be god like a tree, you, this gadget, the air.

There is no concept of ‘relationship’ to god since you are already a part of him and can return to him if you attain moksha. You can think of him as your friend, your parents(in hinduism, we worship our parents), a cow(for the sake of stereotypes-) or yourself. Hinduism has the main concept of Aham Brahmasmi ( I am Absolute ). You cannot get more closer to god than being him, literally.

If you accept the existence of a god (any) or even if you don’t you are automatically a hindu. This is one of the primary reasons by there are not many people spreading our religion inspite of it being one of the oldest religions of all time since we think that everyone is already a hindu and that all the religions are different paths to the same god.

As for the concept of forgiveness, why would you ask forgiveness if you your self are a part of god (note: not image but ‘aans’,ie., part). According to Shrimad Bhagvat Gita it is written that one should only focus on doing Karma(deeds, both mental, physical and spiritual) and not think about the outcome for the god will take care of the outcome. There is no mathematics in Hinduism since you simply should not think of the result but instead only do the deed but it is not to say that you should leave everything to god. That thinking will also be wrong.

In Satana Dharma, you don’t try to bring your karam to zero but rather to the highest possible by doing punya(good deeds) and so for hurting others, I previously stated how gods says to not think about the outcome but simply do the deed so that point is invalid.
The ultimate goal of Sanatan Dharam is moksha(attained by doing karam) by which you reconcile with god Bharaman.

Continuation in the comments

 

[Aquinasthegreat1]

continuation from the post

Here’s a brief summary of the vastness of Sanatan Dharam:

1. Believe in God ! - Aastik - Accepted
2. Don’t believe in God ! - You’re accepted as Nastik
3. You want to worship idols - please go ahead. You are a murti pujak.
4. You dont want to worship idols - no problem. You can focus on Nirguna Brahman.
5. You want to criticise something in our religion. Come forward. We are logical. Nyaya, Tarka etc. are core Hindu schools.
6. You want to accept beliefs as it is. Most welcome. Please go ahead with it.
7. You want to start your journey by reading Bhagvad Gita - Sure !
8. You want to start your journey by reading Upanishads - Go ahead
9. You want to start your journey by reading Purana - Be my guest.
10. You just don’t like reading Puranas or other books. No problem my dear. Go by Bhakti tradition . ( bhakti- devotion)
11. You don’t like idea of Bhakti ! No problem. Do your Karma. Be a karmayogi.
12. You want to enjoy life. Very good. No problem at all. This is Charvaka Philosophy.
13. You want to abstain from all the enjoyment of life & find God - jai ho ! Be a Sadhu, an ascetic !
14. You don’t like the concept of God. You believe in Nature only - Welcome. (Trees are our friends and Prakriti or nature is worthy of worship).
15. You believe in one God or Supreme Energy. Superb! Follow Advaita philosophy
16. You want a Guru. Go ahead. Receive gyaan.
17. You don’t want a Guru… Help yourself ! Meditate, Study !
18. You believe in Female energy ! Shakti is worshipped.
19. You believe that every human being is equal. Yeah! You’re awesome, come on let’s celebrate Hinduism! “Vasudhaiva kutumbakam” (the world is a family)
20. You don’t have time to celebrate the festival.
    Don’t worry. One more festival is coming! There are multiple festivals every single day of the year.
21. You are a working person. Don’t have time for religion. Its okay. You will still be a Hindu.
22. You like to go to temples. Devotion is loved.
23. You don’t like to go to temples - no problem. You are still a Hindu!
24. You know that Hinduism is a way of life, with considerable freedom.
25. You believe that everything has God in it. So you worship your mother, father, guru, tree, River, Prani-matra, Earth, Universe!

This is exactly the essence of Hinduism, all inclusive. That is why it has withstood the test of time inspite of repeated onslaught both from within and outside, and assimilated every good aspects from everything. That is why it is eternal"
How do i refute them?

 

[Minks]

Your “friend” isn’t asking you to debate an issue with him, but an entire belief system. There’s no need to comply with his requests—you are captain of your own ship and master of your own fate; avoid those rocky shoals!

I would ask, “Why are you telling me these things? What do you expect to be the result of our discussing these beliefs?”

Regardless of what your friend answers, I’d then say something to this effect: “Your beliefs are interesting, but I’m secure in the Catholic faith given to us by Jesus Christ. There are volumes and volumes written about our Catholic Faith, so I have plenty of spiritual reading material; I simply don’t have time to study other faiths.”

You might add, with a smile, “Besides, I’ve always heard that politcal and religious discussions can become argumentative and totally ruin friendships, and I value our friendship too much to risk that chance.”

Keep in mind that you deliberately put yourself into the vulnerable position of being led astray if you choose to allow your “friend” to back you into a corner. Be careful. Your very soul is at stake—much more so, since you ARE Catholic, than if you were not.

Best wishes to you.

 

[Vico]

…
How do i refute them?

A common belief in various philosophical systems from India is that there is no God that created the world “ex nihilo”. Also in many Indian philosophies there is reincarnation. Some accept the Vedas (e.g., Yoga, Vedanta) and other do not (e.g., Buddhism, Jainism).

 

[Adamek]

You could start by asking your friend about the caste systme in India. How does that acommodate the notion of equlity of everyone?

 

[White_Tree]

The ultimate goal of Sanatan Dharam is moksha(attained by doing karam) by which you reconcile with god Bharaman.

I assume you mean “karma,” not “karam”?

You might want to let your friend know he is mistaken about the method of attaining moksha. Doing good deeds is good, but it will not result in liberation. Krishna stated:

Whoever realizes the true nature of Purusha , prakriti, and the gunas , whatever path he or she may follow, is not born separate again. – Bhagavad Gita , 13:23

Swami Sivananda had the following commentary on that verse (emphasis added):

In whatsoever condition he may be, whether he is engaged in prescribed or forbidden acts… he is not born again, because the actions (which are the seeds of birth) of one who knows the Spirit and Matter, who has gained the knowledge of the Self, are burnt by the fire of that knowledge. Just as the seeds that are fried in fire do not sprout again, so also the actions burnt in the fire of knowledge cannot produce new bodies or further births. – Swami Sivananda, Bhagavad Gita, Commentary on 13:23

Good karma is necessary to lay a foundation for a stable meditation practice, but that alone cannot liberate you from Samsara. That can only be accomplished through experiential cognizance of the true nature of reality.

The same principle is taught in Buddhism, by the way. Good karma may win you a favorable rebirth, but it will still be a rebirth in Samsara if you lack true awareness of the nature of mind (which includes all the elements Krishna talked about).

And it would be great if the Hindus took the same inclusive, accepting approach towards the Muslims in India. They really are treating those poor people like dirt over there.

How do i refute them?

Why do you need to? It sounds like you have a faith, and your friend accepts your faith as valid and good. So you’re both in agreement. Why would you want to refute that?

 

[Aquinasthegreat1]

Because, he says i have nothing to refute him and that’s why he is right. Maybe i felt insecure and wanted someone to help me out.

 

[Adamek]

Because, he says i have nothing to refute him and that’s why he is right. Maybe i felt insecure and wanted someone to help me out.

What an opportunity for you to become as well versed in your Christianity as he is in his Hinduism.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

So Hinduism boils down to “do and believe whatever you like”?

It’s too nebulous to prove or disprove, so it can’t “go away”.

There’s literally nothing to dispute or disprove here

 

[White_Tree]

Because, he says i have nothing to refute him and that’s why he is right. Maybe i felt insecure and wanted someone to help me out.

Sometimes we’re faced with a choice between being “right” and being happy.

From what you describe, it doesn’t sound like your friend is trying to change you, or pull you away from your faith. If you succeeded in convincing him that Christianity is fundamentally different from Hinduism, what would that accomplish? Would he then feel the need to “save” you? Would he view you as less of an equal? What is your expected outcome here?

Or you could free yourself of the desire to be “right” and simply enjoy your friendship. This may give you an opportunity to learn about a culture and a way of thinking that is very different from your own. That could be an enriching experience, that leads to a deeper appreciation and understanding of your own path to God. Take advantage of it.

So Hinduism boils down to “do and believe whatever you like”?

It really doesn’t. As I alluded to above, the method of attaining salvation in Hinduism is very rigorous and extremely hard. Though most Hindus (at least the ones that I’ve met) don’t have a full appreciation for how difficult it is, or all that it entails.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

0Scarlett_nidiyilii:

So Hinduism boils down to “do and believe whatever you like”?

It really doesn’t.

You know that and I know that.
But the OP’s friend is a really poor Hindu apologist if he claims Hinduism boils down to “All The Human Activities!”

 

[Guest1]

Once one achieves moksha do they lose their individuality?

As in they cease to exist and are now just plan ol’ god?

If we shouldn’t apologize to god which is ourselves …
If I hit a random old lady on the street and on purpose why should people be angry or arrest me? It’s just god hitting god.

If your friend believes in reincarnation… Does that mean the ants we step on or animals we eat could of been our family members or humans at one point?

 

[Peaceable]

Maybe, but from the Hindu standpoint, they typically don’t engage in apologetics Or have a well developed tradition of this. (this is changing slowly ). So a Hindu in this position would be somewhat “put on the spot.” Nor do they feel they should have to engage in apologetics, And feel dragged into this. It’s a fundamental difference between the two faith traditions that one would engage in apologetics and the other doesn’t. Generally, Hindus believe that people should be free to worship the faith tradition that aligns with their conscience. They would even tend to encourage people to practice their own different faith tradition, in a live and let live approach.

For what it’s worth, some may see such discussions as hostile/harassment. (some, but certainly not everyone ). Even though this may not have been the intention. I think in the west there’s common back-and-forth and banter about why other people should believe the way the other person believes. In Hinduism, this might be seen as trying to injure their faith in God, and possibly destroy their family system. Might not be seen as sort of “free market of ideas” and valuable as it might be the West. (colonial history might play a role here in this perception). Historically, philosophical banter, including between religions was actually encouraged. This is what I think this is More of a postcolonial issue.

My sense is that you were trying to evangelize your friend, I could be wrong, and they were explaining why they choose to believe in their faith tradition?

On the other hand, I know a Hindu who had a friend who is Mormon who wept over the fact that they were going to hell because they were Hindu. That person felt the other person cared for them, albeit in a misguided way.

 

[Peaceable]

Once one achieves moksha do they lose their individuality?

As in they cease to exist and are now just plan ol’ god?”
——————
Good question, depends on what school of Hinduism you follow. Some would say yes, some say you would merge with God but still retain your individuality, More dualistic approaches would sound more like the Christian view in which you retain your individuality but are distinct and in the presence of God. Other schools of thought in Hinduism would say this is unknowable, and that it’s probably more productive to focus on one’s relationship with God.

———-

“If we shouldn’t apologize to God which is ourselves.
If I hit a random old lady on the street and on purpose why should people be angry or arrest me? It’s just god hitting god.”
——-

First of all, those who hold this view would say if you’re in a state of Hindu grace when you truly grasp that human souls are divine and of the same substance as God, you wouldn’t be going around injuring people or framing things this way. That’s a realization that can only be achieved through the grace of God and through extensive prayer and meditation, And an earnest seeking of an authentic relationship with God.

There are definitely stories in Hinduism where an enlightened person looked like a “Holy crazy person” Because they might be referring to a stray dog as Holy. However, the difference between this person and someone who is mentally ill would be that when people stop to talk to this person, they realize they “holy crazy person” would be speaking profoundly about spiritual things and with a great deal of intelligence generally.

A person who went around harming people and not apologizing to them “because everything is all the same God substance“ would be considered acting in bad faith or acting dishonestly, because they’re truly not behaving as if they are all part of God/souls are part of God.

Most people intellectually grasp things that they may not fully act upon in good faith. For example, most religious folks intellectually believe God loves them but if they truly grasp and internalize this in a deep way they would likely change their ways and find it much harder to sin as readily.

——-
“If your friend believes in reincarnation… Does that mean the ants we step on or animals we eat could of been our family members or humans at one point?

——
Yes, which is one of the reasons why it’s important to be compassionate to all living creatures in Hinduism. Historically, there was a religious obligation to feed stray animals.

 

[vsedriver]

why he (my hindu friend) should consider Catholicism rather than Hinduism.

because Catholicism is True. There is no proof that anything in Hindu philosophy or theology is true.

 

[openmind77]

If your friend believes in reincarnation… Does that mean the ants we step on or animals we eat could of been our family members or humans at one point?

This belief that you can reincarnate as an animal or some lower creature is more prevalent in Buddhism or Jainism, not in Hinduism. Most Hindus believe that you reincarnate as another human being. So you should not worry about stepping on your relatives.

 

[White_Tree]

There is no proof that anything in Hindu philosophy or theology is true.

Couldn’t that claim be made about any religion?

 

[Kaninchen]

They would even tend to encourage people to practice their own different faith tradition, in a live and let live approach.

Judaism shares a similar outlook, we don’t think people have to believe as we do, either.

The push to convert people tends to come with religions with a “you’ll suffer forever if you don’t believe as we do,” aspect.

 

[tomarin]

Yet Hinduism tends to incorporate or envelope other religions or belief systems in their overarching epistemology (I believe some Hindus believe Jesus to be an avatar of Krishna?) whereas Judaism keeps them at arm’s length.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

So a Hindu in this position would be somewhat “put on the spot.” Nor do they feel they should have to engage in apologetics,

I got the impression that the OP’s Hindu friend “started it”, meaning by making the claim that Hinduism couldn’t be debunked or whatever? That was my takeaway but I may have misunderstood.

I’ve only known a few Hindus, and they never attempted to evangelize me. I got the impression Hinduism doesn’t work that way.