So called "Christian Rock"

[forthefaith77]

What is Catholic thought and or teaching on the so called rock or popular Christian music. I have heard many things like it is bad because it uses an rock tempo, it is better than secular music scen, it celebrates christian virtue, christian pop music is bad because it creates an false sense of spirtualism without the church, it cheapens the gosple message reducing it to an button on the radio ect. Their are some Cathoic artists however most are protestant with protestant leaning lyrics. Their are several catholic ones omega rock comes to mind. Many of these artists mimic popular music types like rock, pop, funk, soul, alterntive. Many like switchfoot and jars of clay have had mainstream sucess. As an catholic is it bad to listen to this kind of music? 4Some people think the scripture verse about christans being salt and light in the culture means that christian music should mimic popular music. Is an catholic going aganist the church to listen or a better way to say it entertain Christian music that denys the pope and the place of the Cathoic Church? Should an Catholic not listen to artists and stations who practice OSAS.

 

[Flopfoot]

When I used to post regularly here, for some time I sought an answer to the morality of music. Eventually after several discussions and reading some articles by Jimmy Akin I was able to conclude that it is not morally wrong to listen to any kind of music, whether Christian music, heavy metal, or whatever. It might not be particularly good in some cases, but that doesn’t make it wrong.

Unless you have a particularly susceptible mind, the lyrics of music are not going to greatly affect you. So it’s not so bad to listen to songs by Protestants that say things that go against what the Catholic church teaches, as long as you remember that what these people are saying is just their own beliefs and not necessarily true (same as what any artist or writer might say).
Don’t sing along to it though if you don’t agree with what the lyrics are saying.

If you are writing Christian music, remember that it might infleunce some of your listeners (even if it wouldn’t influence someone like you) and hence don’t put anything in there that’s false teaching. (Note, these are my recommendations / what I think is right or wrong to do).

On the value of Christian pop music overall, I don’t really have a strong opinion. Well one thing I can say though is that I don’t think that pop or rock styles should be used in Mass - stick to music that sounds more sacred in that case. But for using at youth groups, or just general purpose listening etc, I don’t think it’s that bad - it’s just another medium for people to speak and recieve a Christian message, if they would like to use such a medium.

Personally I don’t listen to much Christian rock or pop simply because the quality of the actual music (regardless of the lyrics) is not very good in most cases IMO. There are a few exceptions like Creed and Fearscape.

 

[chrysostom15]

of course, it is not acceptable to have Christian Rock during Mass. That said, depending on the lyrics, it may be acceptable for individuals to listen to outside of Mass.

 

[puzzleannie]

John Michael Talbot has a benefit concert tomorrow night in Pharr TX with proceeds going to the dioconate formation program. Now there is some Christion Pop I can really get into.

 

[Bennie_P]

of course, it is not acceptable to have Christian Rock during Mass. That said, depending on the lyrics, it may be acceptable for individuals to listen to outside of Mass.

Why not?

 

[Rawb]

Originally Posted by chrysostom15
of course, it is not acceptable to have Christian Rock during Mass. That said, depending on the lyrics, it may be acceptable for individuals to listen to outside of Mass.

Why not?

Because rock music is not reverent. It gets you excited, it pumps up your energy level, that’s why I like to listen to it in my car or when I’m with friends. It is not music that lifts your mind up to heaven. It also evokes emotion in a negative way - Protestant churches in my town have a problem where if they don’t provide good music, the people don’t show up. If the people don’t get the same ‘feeling’ they got last week, then they don’t go again. I know one protestant who bases her entire opinion on a church on it’s music. Rock is great in it’s place - outside of the mass.

 

[Bennie_P]

Because rock music is not reverent. It gets you excited, it pumps up your energy level, that’s why I like to listen to it in my car or when I’m with friends. It is not music that lifts your mind up to heaven. It also evokes emotion in a negative way - Protestant churches in my town have a problem where if they don’t provide good music, the people don’t show up. If the people don’t get the same ‘feeling’ they got last week, then they don’t go again. I know one protestant who bases her entire opinion on a church on it’s music. Rock is great in it’s place - outside of the mass.

Have you been to any mass that was using third world music that used different types of rythym and instruments you would not find in a “traditional” European Mass? Would you considered it improper?

 

[YinYangMom]

Have you been to any mass that was using third world music that used different types of rythym and instruments you would not find in a “traditional” European Mass? Would you considered it improper?

BennieP, you’re on to the right direction for answering your own question. Within certain historical cultures, certain forms of music is considered ‘norm’. But to take a different culture’s liturgical norm and place it into the U.S. liturgy would be taking it out of the norm and placing it into unforeign territory.

Certainly one could host a prayer service in the parish hall featuring music from other countries so that we can share in the joy of the differences which make us unique, but that’s more of a one-time event to foster spiritual growth.

Liturgical dance has its place within the cultures it originated, but not here in the U.S. The bishops and Rome have spoken on that matter.

The same goes with Rock music being brought into our liturgy. See the U.S. Bishops website under Liturgy for a powerpoint presentation (PPT Update on Music Subcommittee) of their recent meeting discussing music within liturgy. Read those slides and you’ll get the answers as to why Rock is not allowed in the mass. You’ll see that music within the mass serves a specific function as prayer itself, and thus must reflect certain norms.

Christian Rock, however, is fine at youth group rallies, dances, fun fairs, parish picnics and the such. There you want to get people excited about being Catholic, but in the Mass you want people to focus on revering our Lord at the sacrifice of the mass - the highest form of prayer available to us as a community. It’s a sacrifice, not a party.

 

[Bennie_P]

BennieP, you’re on to the right direction for answering your own question. Within certain historical cultures, certain forms of music is considered ‘norm’. But to take a different culture’s liturgical norm and place it into the U.S. liturgy would be taking it out of the norm and placing it into unforeign territory.

Certainly one could host a prayer service in the parish hall featuring music from other countries so that we can share in the joy of the differences which make us unique, but that’s more of a one-time event to foster spiritual growth.

Liturgical dance has its place within the cultures it originated, but not here in the U.S. The bishops and Rome have spoken on that matter.

The same goes with Rock music being brought into our liturgy. See the U.S. Bishops website under Liturgy for a powerpoint presentation (PPT Update on Music Subcommittee) of their recent meeting discussing music within liturgy. Read those slides and you’ll get the answers as to why Rock is not allowed in the mass. You’ll see that music within the mass serves a specific function as prayer itself, and thus must reflect certain norms.

Christian Rock, however, is fine at youth group rallies, dances, fun fairs, parish picnics and the such. There you want to get people excited about being Catholic, but in the Mass you want people to focus on revering our Lord at the sacrifice of the mass - the highest form of prayer available to us as a community. It’s a sacrifice, not a party.

Thanks for the reference, it answers some of my questions, but what I really question what some might consider “Christian” rock and I agree that Sunday Mass should be of a more traditional use of music in the liturgy.

If the music fits within the doctrinal concerns, as stated in the PP, then would not a modern hymn/song be appropriate.

In our parish on Wednesday night we have Mass that is attended by the parish youth group which use to meet on Sunday nights. Our pastor allows modern music to be used during that mass, which usually at a weekday mass there would be no music at all except chanting of the different parts of the liturgy. I’m not talking about upbeat hard rock type tunes, but some of the older parishners has labeled this mass a "rock and roll’ mass, but the music is really modern songs you might find at a protestant praise service. These songs are usually softer sounding songs, but are by artist that do so called Christian Rock.

I don’t enjoy the typical protestant praise sevice for it does not feed me the way the eucharist does nor do I feel that I’m givng glory to God in the way I should be.

Just the same I’m struggling with which modern tunes are not proper and when they are.

As to liturgical dance I have seen some things at other parishs that have no place, but with my parish which we are multiculture parish with a Nigerian community and other third world communies and on certain occasions the Nigerians have used a form liturgical dance when presenting the gifts. this is on very rare occassions.

 

[YinYangMom]

If the music fits within the doctrinal concerns, as stated in the PP, then would not a modern hymn/song be appropriate.

Once again, you are on the right track of answering your concerns. Modern ‘hymns/songs’ are not Christian Rock, and so, yes, those would be appropriate provided they fit within the doctrinal concerns.

Modern Rock conjures up a modern drum set (not cultural bongos or other rhythm instruments) complete with at least one set of symbols if not more, electric bass and acoustic guitars, and sometimes even horns of some sort. While these instruments can be used to generate soft, gentle music, when it comes to Rock, the beat is rapid, and loud. It is meant to inspire the body to move to the rhythm - but it’s not a soothing, relaxing rhythm - it’s upbeat and energizing, designed to get the listener up off their feet in praise (as you noted).

This is not the intent in a liturgy, but appropriate afterwards.

I’m not talking about upbeat hard rock type tunes, but some of the older parishioners have labeled this mass a "rock and roll’ mass, but the music is really modern songs you might find at a protestant praise service. These songs are usually softer sounding songs, but are by artist that do so called Christian Rock.

And your priest is correct in that regard. You acknowledge the music played in the mass is not Christian Rock but rather modern, softer sounding ‘songs’. That the artists also compose Rock tunes has nothing to do with what takes place in the mass itself. As for the older parishioners, if the music is performed with electric guitars and real drums, then perhaps that’s all they would need to label anything ‘rock and roll’. If the music is performed with acoustic guitars and an electric keyboard, no drumset or symbols then I certainly would not agree with their classification of the music being ‘rock and roll’.

Just the same I’m struggling with which modern tunes are not proper and when they are.

Modern tunes are proper in their proper element. Within the mass as we saw in the PP there are guidelines which must be met. If the song/tune falls outside those parameters it does not belong in the liturgy. Again, that’s not to say it does not belong in the church at all.

Songs with praise our Lord and offer Him proper respect cannot be bad, whether it is produced with steel guitars or woodwinds. Though I highly doubt lyrics of glory and praise to our Lord would ever sound ‘right’ coming from a ‘grunge’ setting. But, hey, that’s not to say some emo-type-goth can’t be inspired by the Spirit to praise Him in that format. Nothing’s impossible with our Lord.

As to liturgical dance I have seen some things at other parishs that have no place, but with my parish which we are multiculture parish with a Nigerian community and other third world communies and on certain occasions the Nigerians have used a form liturgical dance when presenting the gifts. this is on very rare occassions.

As you noted, your parish has a Nigerian community and therefore, ‘on occasion’ it would be fitting to help celebrate that community’s history within the faith by offering them the opportunity to share with the larger parish community some of the riches their historical ancestors brought to the world. I would imagine the dance they offered was respectful and lovely.

 

[pprimeau1976]

*If *the American Bishops have officially put the axe to Catholic/Christian Rock in the mass, I guess would have to get used to it. But I doubt that they have banned any particular form of music because the United States is unlike any other country due to the fact that it has such a large, diverse, ethnic population.

If we are not bound to be a member of a parish based on geographical boundaries, shouldn’t we welcome diversity in church music if it brings people into the Church? What’s good for the goose isn’t necessarily good for the gander.

 

[YinYangMom]

*…*shouldn’t we welcome diversity in church music if it brings people into the Church? What’s good for the goose isn’t necessarily good for the gander.

The purpose of music within the mass is not to 'bring people into the Church" as it is with protestant denominations.

The Catholic Church has the Real Presence in the Eucharst to ‘bring people into the Church’. The Mass itself is one glorious prayer, every component within the liturgy is part of that prayer. The music is there to enhance the reverence due to Our Lord as we turn to him with our petitions and with our praise. No one element of the liturgy should stand out from the others as they are blended in unison with the angels and saints in heaven at the moment of consecration. The homily should not stand out above and beyond the readings or sign of peace should not stand out above and beyond the prayers of petition, and so on.

Diversity within the mass comes from the people and the language and the music of a particular cultural region. The music, attire and language in Spain will differ from Nigeria, will differ from Mexico will differ from the U.S. In the U.S. there is no need to incorporate a German liturgical service into the regular weekly masses in a largely American Hispanic parish. Just as one shouldn’t see a Vietnamese liturgical service in the weekly masses of a parish community comprised mostly of American Germans. There is nothing wrong, however, in hosting a concert in the parish hall in these communities whereby the dress, food, and religious music represents a different cultural history. As noted before, Christian Rock performed outside the mass would be fine to help draw people into the parish - but that’s for the parish community - not for drawing people into a Mass.

 

[pprimeau1976]

The purpose of music within the mass is not to 'bring people into the Church" as it is with protestant denominations.

Is that an opinion or is that a declared truth? I understand that it is not the primary function, but what I percieve to be real is that different music affects different people in different ways. The Church recognizes the principle behind this realization as she allows different liturgies, i.e. Novus Ordo, Tridentine, Byzantine (etc.). I apologize to the Byzantines for incorrectly naming their liturgy - but you get the point.

The Catholic Church has the Real Presence in the Eucharst to ‘bring people into the Church’. The Mass itself is one glorious prayer, every component within the liturgy is part of that prayer.

Quite right, but not everybody has come to that realization yet - even Catholics. The belief that you have is the “icing on the cake” - I use the phrase loosely, mind you - and as far as the faith journey for converts, I don’t think that’s the starting point that gets them in the door.

The music is there to enhance the reverence due to Our Lord as we turn to him with our petitions and with our praise. No one element of the liturgy should stand out from the others as they are blended in unison with the angels and saints in heaven at the moment of consecration. The homily should not stand out above and beyond the readings or sign of peace should not stand out above and beyond the prayers of petition, and so on.

I agree with you! Notice you said that the music is there to “enhance our reverence”. Different music does a better job of “enhancing our reverence” than others based on the demographic. And as far as no one element of the liturgy should stand out, I disagree with you. As far as I am concerned, the moment of transubstantiation is the pinnacle of the liturgy. That’s the moment that the priest goes from holding a loaf of bread in his hands to holding God in his hands. No loud banging of drums or tamborines can outdo that experience.

Diversity within the mass comes from the people and the language and the music of a particular cultural region. The music, attire and language in Spain will differ from Nigeria, will differ from Mexico will differ from the U.S. In the U.S. there is no need to incorporate a German liturgical service into the regular weekly masses in a largely American Hispanic parish. Just as one shouldn’t see a Vietnamese liturgical service in the weekly masses of a parish community comprised mostly of American Germans. There is nothing wrong, however, in hosting a concert in the parish hall in these communities whereby the dress, food, and religious music represents a different cultural history. As noted before, Christian Rock performed outside the mass would be fine to help draw people into the parish - but that’s for the parish community - not for drawing people into a Mass.

Again, I agree and disagree with you and my reasoning is mentioned above based on the total functionality of music in the mass setting. I think that the parish should reflect it’s demographic and if there is a demographic shift, the parish should try to accommodate those shifts. The tough call though is when to “ignore” a demographic, but it’s a decision I am glad I don’t have to make. (Knock on wood) As far as the type of music that is used, I think the biggest problem is not the music - it’s the quality of the musicians. I have been in music ministry since I was 14 and my experience is that the best parishes have the best musicians.

And no, not every parish I’ve been at had the best just because I was there!!

 

[puzzleannie]

OP asked about the morality of listening to “Christian” rock music, whether by Catholic or other artists. So if we want to talk about the morality it should be in the morality forum. If we want to talk about the genre it should be discussed in Popular Media. If you want to argue about music for Mass that should be in the liturgy forum, and would also be off-topic

 

[YinYangMom]

OP asked about the morality of listening to “Christian” rock music, whether by Catholic or other artists. So if we want to talk about the morality it should be in the morality forum. If we want to talk about the genre it should be discussed in Popular Media. If you want to argue about music for Mass that should be in the liturgy forum, and would also be off-topic

Oops, you are most correct.

I think the OPs question belongs in Morality since the question is about the morality of listening to Christian Rock music.

Chrysostom15 and BenniePs posts at #3 and #5 would be better suited for the Liturgy Forum along with my contributions along those lines.

My apologies for contributing to the side tracking.

I think where I got lost with the original question was:

forthefaith77:

Is an catholic going aganist the church to listen or a better way to say it entertain Christian music that denys the pope and the place of the Cathoic Church? Should an Catholic not listen to artists and stations who practice OSAS.

I guess I don’t understand the two questions as written.

 

[YinYangMom]

Is an catholic going aganist the church to listen

No.

or a better way to say it entertain Christian music that denys the pope and the place of the Cathoic Church?

I haven’t heard any Christian music which denies the Pope and the place of the Catholic church. But if you’re asking if since the composer/artist comes from a Christian denomination which denies the poe and the place of the catholic church, that would make their work bad for Catholics to listen to, I would still say no, since their music is about Jesus and His love for us.

Should an Catholic not listen to artists and stations who practice OSAS.

Certainly listening to OSAS source programs and artists is not going against the Catholic church. In many places there are no Catholic programs on air and so Catholics are left to listen to the Christian ones to feed their spirit a bit. It could be a little risky if a Catholic isn’t strong in their understanding of Church teaching, but usually the Spirit works in the right way through such mediums. Listening to Christian programs always left me a bit ‘off’ because something just didn’t seem right about what I was hearing. The overall message was good but a piece or two seemed missing or not quite completely true. That often led me to look it up through Catholic sources to find out what it was that was missing and so I ended up growing to be a stronger Catholic by listening to the Christians.

 

[TarHeelBrian]

So, after all, it is ok for me to listen to Christian praise & worship outside of Mass?

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Some of my favorite artists are Michael W. Smith, Rebecca St. James, Tammy Trent, etc. They aren’t that “rough” in the tempo, but are more relaxed, oh and Hillsongs (Darlene Zschech).

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I’m a soon-to-be convert from the Pentecostal Church, so it’s a great leap… yet I still feel connected to God with the modern praise & worship as well as the sacred music of the Catholic Church.

 

[Angela_Tate]

So, after all, it is ok for me to listen to Christian praise & worship outside of Mass?

Some of my favorite artists are Michael W. Smith, Rebecca St. James, Tammy Trent, etc. They aren’t that “rough” in the tempo, but are more relaxed, oh and Hillsongs (Darlene Zschech).

I’m a soon-to-be convert from the Pentecostal Church, so it’s a great leap… yet I still feel connected to God with the modern praise & worship as well as the sacred music of the Catholic Church.

Yes it’s ok to listen to Christian praise & worship outside of mass. These artists, I believe, are moved by the Spirit to generate such works. Their intentions are to help others acknowledge and honor Him. If listening to the music helps you do that, then it can’t be bad.

SaintPhilomena.com offers Catholic worship and praise music and has a magazine featuring news about upcoming artists and such if you’d like to compare that to what you’re used to.

 

[YinYangMom]

So, after all, it is ok for me to listen to Christian praise & worship outside of Mass?

Some of my favorite artists are Michael W. Smith, Rebecca St. James, Tammy Trent, etc. They aren’t that “rough” in the tempo, but are more relaxed, oh and Hillsongs (Darlene Zschech).

I’m a soon-to-be convert from the Pentecostal Church, so it’s a great leap… yet I still feel connected to God with the modern praise & worship as well as the sacred music of the Catholic Church.

Yes it’s ok to listen to Christian praise & worship outside of mass. These artists, I believe, are moved by the Spirit to generate such works. Their intentions are to help others acknowledge and honor Him. If listening to the music helps you do that, then it can’t be bad.

SaintPhilomena.com offers Catholic worship and praise music and has a magazine featuring news about upcoming artists and such if you’d like to compare that to what you’re used to. I don’t know if the songs were written to be used within a mass, but I suppose some of them would qualify and one might come across one or two of them in a mass at some time.

 

[Greg27]

Some of it is very good (I like Rebecca St James, Stacey Orrico and a few others), while other music is not to my liking.