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joanofarc2008
Guest
I also think it is a sad thing all other things aside - I just think we should be looking for solutions rather than watch the man drown.
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scoobydoo6v92
Guest
I would love to have my home turned into a home for retired priests and nuns or build a building but no funds for that. IF!!! IF IF IF I enter seminary I woud love to have my home used for a retirement home. I have 40 acres so there would be plenty of room and I would be in the next diocese from mine and don’t need to live here and couldn’t. There are many people that have spare room the ones with the McMansions and have only one kid. It would be a very nice thing to do.
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joanofarc2008
Guest
See this is what I mean = now imagine if we could find someone in every diocese to try to match up families in every diocese with people like this ladies aunt. just a thought - it could be a volunteer position - maybe for someone with social work experience or pastoral associate experience. Just a thought. Seems much more productive than talking about it. Yes praying works - but sometimes God also helps those that help themselves - and yes, Joan of Arc herself said something like that during her battle campaigns. Just a thought. Maybe this might be the OPs call - maybe not. Maybe this is a call to someone reading this. God bless.
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Dawnia
Guest
Our local Carmelite monastery has less than a dozen nuns, but we have a guild that sees to their needs. They hold fundraisers and such to bring in money to keep the place going. Without the guild I think the place would have closed up years ago.
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cradlecatholic5
Guest
Praying for your Aunt and all sisters.
what a great idea!
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cara1
Guest
Even nuns who are well set up are being dislocated. The Redemptorist nuns in Esopus NY are ten in number, older, and live in a monastery built for them in 2000. Their 400 acres of land are apparently owned by the Redemptorist Fathers, who own a large retreat center nearby, which was probably originally their motherhouse and novitiate. The Fathers are leasing the entire thing to the Bruderhof, and evicting the nuns.
Where are the nuns to go? They are older , need elevators, special bathrooms, etc all in an appropriate monastic environment. They can’t use a large, empty convent. There is another Redemptorist monastery in St. Louis, whose nuns look even older–do they have room? The nuns have until June 2012.
The nuns’ last profession was a 60 year old, Sr. Hildegarde, who maintains a fine blog. surely she could have helped with vocations. There are several smaller contemplative communities that people are not considering now, and several very orthodox Carmels have closed.
If anyone has any ideas for the Esopus nuns, I am sure they would be willing to hear all possibilities.
If there is a lesson from all this, that is to understand the financial underpinnings of a community of interest. Who owns the property? Who makes the decisions if the community falls on hard times? Living in abject poverty and uncertainly is one expression of religious life, but not to everyone’s taste.
Where are the nuns to go? They are older , need elevators, special bathrooms, etc all in an appropriate monastic environment. They can’t use a large, empty convent. There is another Redemptorist monastery in St. Louis, whose nuns look even older–do they have room? The nuns have until June 2012.
The nuns’ last profession was a 60 year old, Sr. Hildegarde, who maintains a fine blog. surely she could have helped with vocations. There are several smaller contemplative communities that people are not considering now, and several very orthodox Carmels have closed.
If anyone has any ideas for the Esopus nuns, I am sure they would be willing to hear all possibilities.
If there is a lesson from all this, that is to understand the financial underpinnings of a community of interest. Who owns the property? Who makes the decisions if the community falls on hard times? Living in abject poverty and uncertainly is one expression of religious life, but not to everyone’s taste.
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scoobydoo6v92
Guest
Esopus gives me such fond memories. When I was a kid I used to go there a lot!! Good ole days!!!
I think it is awful and it is sad. I hope there is something they could do. I don’t know the whole story but heard about it. I think though we will see a huge spike in vocations. The pendulum will start to swing the other way. With this awful economy and college grads not finding work. There will be a huge increase. God may have a huge harvest in the next 5 to ten years. That is what I feel and think. Scoob.
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cara1
Guest
Well, I hate to think that the whole thing hinges on the economy, but who knows?
There is a steady trickle of vocations in a few of the women’s groups, aside from the Nashville and Ann Arbor Dominicans, who have a large group of postulants and a lot of final professions. They are traditional, have a beautiful habit, and teach. Others are getting steady, if few professions, but they are there. Even the aging orders get a few. However, the number in women’s apostolic congregations is going to lower greatly and probably stay low, as compared with the unsustainable 180,000 at their peak. The current number of sisters in the mid 50,000 range does not reflect the reality, in that the average age is mid-70’s; thus the number is falsely elevated.
What will happen to the priesthood and men’s religious groups is anyone’s guess.
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auderyja
Guest
Oh, my goodness. They don’t have a religious retirement home in their diocese? This is so sad.
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barb_finnegan
Guest
I’ve been down that way-when I pass through Esopus and see the signs of the communities which are still there, I think of it as ‘Monastery Row’!
But how sad about the Redemptoristine nuns! I stopped by their old convent building once, and visited their chapel. But when I tried to do the same at their new one, I couldn’t go in-I think there was a security code, which I didn’t have, obviously.
The retreat house is huge! It’s also got a great view of the Hudson River Valley!
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Rudolfo
Guest
This is terrible. First, those women are meant to live in Community. Second, at age 70 and even much higher, they cannot live in a govt apartment without great deal of assistance (driving to a doctor appt or grocery shopping for example).
It’s hard for me to come up with ideas for you knowing so little. Obviously, money is the whole problem. Who made this decision? The Order, or did they appeal to their Bishop for help? Did they talk to the bank? Or maybe it’s the bank forcing the sale.
The nursing home care (dying, dementia, etc) I know has specific health laws and state regulations. It’s also very expensive to maintain. It seems if they still own property, a mother house, etc, the last thing you want to do is sell it. Especially when property values are at an historic low point. They will not get the value!
If two buildings could be saved, one for the nursing home and one for the assisted living (women who are ambulatory and don’t need 24/7 care), then they could stay together. Also, they must figure the money, and it would add up, of hiring people to drive all over town and take care of the nuns in apartments. But if this is only 2 or 3 nuns, frankly the diocese probably will not care to make efforts.
Perhaps the expenses on the buildings are too high, so they are selling with no choice. But I hope they have consulted some financial advisors. Perhaps a mortgage, reverse buy-out, or some deal could be arranged. There is also a complex arrangement where the institution “sells” the buildings and donors “buy back” the buildings.
An 80-year old nun in a low income apartment is unconscionable. But I will tell you I know priests who are in the same situation. These religious entered the Church and devoted their lives, with the understanding that they would be cared for at the end of their lives.
What about activism? Is it too late to get people who know the nuns to write to the bishop on their behalf? Or a story in the paper of old ladies being thrown on the mercy of the govt after serving the Church for 60 years. A story like that in LA when Mahony sold a house 3 nuns shared for decades stirred up the community. The stirring up is not to cause trouble, but to motivate higher-ups to explore more options.
It’s hard for me to come up with ideas for you knowing so little. Obviously, money is the whole problem. Who made this decision? The Order, or did they appeal to their Bishop for help? Did they talk to the bank? Or maybe it’s the bank forcing the sale.
The nursing home care (dying, dementia, etc) I know has specific health laws and state regulations. It’s also very expensive to maintain. It seems if they still own property, a mother house, etc, the last thing you want to do is sell it. Especially when property values are at an historic low point. They will not get the value!
If two buildings could be saved, one for the nursing home and one for the assisted living (women who are ambulatory and don’t need 24/7 care), then they could stay together. Also, they must figure the money, and it would add up, of hiring people to drive all over town and take care of the nuns in apartments. But if this is only 2 or 3 nuns, frankly the diocese probably will not care to make efforts.
Perhaps the expenses on the buildings are too high, so they are selling with no choice. But I hope they have consulted some financial advisors. Perhaps a mortgage, reverse buy-out, or some deal could be arranged. There is also a complex arrangement where the institution “sells” the buildings and donors “buy back” the buildings.
An 80-year old nun in a low income apartment is unconscionable. But I will tell you I know priests who are in the same situation. These religious entered the Church and devoted their lives, with the understanding that they would be cared for at the end of their lives.
What about activism? Is it too late to get people who know the nuns to write to the bishop on their behalf? Or a story in the paper of old ladies being thrown on the mercy of the govt after serving the Church for 60 years. A story like that in LA when Mahony sold a house 3 nuns shared for decades stirred up the community. The stirring up is not to cause trouble, but to motivate higher-ups to explore more options.
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TiggerS
Guest
This is a very very sad story. And though it is not a new one nowadays, it is still very saddenng* - very! -* and every time one hears of it.
Prayer for your aunty and you and all who love and care for her - and that her living conditions in the apartment will not prove as we may fear. May The Lord grant to her and all in a similar position many unexpected and unanticipated joys and consolations in every way.
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Hopemercy
Guest
Exactly so to your first para/ Religious life is by its very nature totally different from life outside a convent and to place a Sister thus with a family would be not the appropirate way to go. Any more than dumping a Sister in an apartment.
And it is “dumping” and it is inexcusable and wrong.
And yes, other orders should take them in; it would be a privilege and a grace for them to do that.
Sisters give their lives to service within their Order and the order has a holy duty to care for them to the end.
It is interesting and telling that when, about three years ago, the last three Sisters in one order were evicted - I think this was Washington- the only SIsters who offered them help were an Anglican Order who gave them accommodation there.
Here in Ireland, we see eg Poor Clares ending their days in secular nursing homes while other Poor Clares here have abundant space and resources. A shameful situation.
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