So exactly what is "grave matter"?

[Lepanto]

“Grave matter,” along with full knowledge and full consent of the will are required in order for something to constitute a mortal sin. So what exactly is “grave matter”?

I have yet to see an authoritative definition–or better yet–a list of examples.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

“Grave matter,” along with full knowledge and full consent of the will are required in order for something to constitute a mortal sin. So what exactly is “grave matter”?

I have yet to see an authoritative definition–or better yet–a list of examples.

Here’s both, from the Catechism:

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: “Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.” The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

And here’s an article by Jimmy Akin on just that subject.

Peace,
Dante

 

[blessedtoo]

Based on Jimmy’s explanation, if someone were to “take” two rolls of toilet paper from their employer’s home, where 300 other rolls of toilet paper were stacked in the closet, this would not constitute “grave” matter?

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Based on Jimmy’s explanation, if someone were to “take” two rolls of toilet paper from their employer’s home, where 300 other rolls of toilet paper were stacked in the closet, this would not constitute “grave” matter?

Perhaps, but that does not make it “ok”. Furthermore, to steal the toilet paper under the assumption that it’s not gravely sinful seems akin to committing the sin of presuming God’s mercy.

Peace,
Dante

 

[awalt]

Here is a question that has recently confused me:

1. We know what venial sins are.
2. We know mortal sins require three conditions (objectively grave, know it, assent to do it).

So if someone does an objectively grave sin, say abortion, and truly (God judges) does not know it’s evil, does this make it a venial sin?

It wold seem to me a lot of people fall into this category. I assume it is venial, yet they have a lot of purgatory to do as it’s a grave sin whose consequences and affinity for must be cleansed from their soul?

 

[Matt_Collins]

There is a qualitative difference between a mortal sin and venial sin. It is not simply a difference of degree. In other words, a million bazillion venial sins will not add up to a mortal sin. A mortal sin is something essentially different from a venial sin.

It is important to view sin in terms of our loving relationship with God. God uses marriage as an image of his relationship with us. So I think we can use marriage to help us see things a little more clearly here.

In marriage, it is inevitable that the spouses will do little things that irritate each other, and perhaps even offend each other, but not in a way that fundamentally ruptures their relationship. The husband, for example, may regularly drop his dirty underwear on the bedroom floor and leave it to his wife to pick it up and put it in the laundry. Clearly that’s a lack of charity on his part, and his wife is justified in being offended at being treated with such a lack of charity. If she is particularly holy, she will forgive him for his offense because of the other wonderful things he does for her like bringing her flowers on Fridays.

If the husband were to commit adultery, though, this would be a fundamental rupture in their relationship. It can be forgiven, but only if the husband acknowledges his guilt, promises not to do it again, and humbly asks for forgiveness. No matter how many times he brings her flowers on Fridays, she cannot truly forgive him unless he confesses his guilt and asks for pardon. The flow of genuine love between them cannot resume until this happens.

Venial sin and mortal sin can be viewed in this way. Venial sin may cause harm to the loving relationship between God and a person, but it does not fundamentally rupture that relationship. Mortal sin does rupture that relationship. Mortal sin interrupts the flow of love.

So, to answer your question, grave matter is matter that would rupture that relationship if it is done with full knowledge and full consent of the will.

And keeping in line with Jimmy Akin’s comments about “potentially grave” matter, even the failure to put his dirty underwear in the laundry could become grave matter if it reflects a grave lack of concern for his wife’s welfare. For example, if she has just had back surgery and he still drops his underwear on the floor expecting her to pick it up, that would reflect a serious lack of charity on his part.

Just some food for thought…

 

[Lepanto]

So, to answer your question, grave matter is matter that would rupture that relationship if it is done with full knowledge and full consent of the will.

I sincerely thank you all for the responses. However, I still don’t know what “grave matter” is.

I understand that grave matter (with full knowledge and full consent of the will) ruptures one’s relationship with God…but what exactly does it take to rupture one’s relationship with God?

 

[Seatuck]

I sincerely thank you all for the responses. However, I still don’t know what “grave matter” is.

I understand that grave matter (with full knowledge and full consent of the will) ruptures one’s relationship with God…but what exactly does it take to rupture one’s relationship with God?

Go back to the Catechism. It tells you. Grave matter is based on the churches understanding of the 10 Commandments. You need to study those as we all should do. Try some examinations of conscience to get a feel for what a sin is.
Grave Matter doesn’t break your relationship, mortal sin (which is a violation of grave matter does). If it helps substitute the word “serious” for grave.

catholicparents.org/oxcart/Examination%20of%20Conscience.pdf

newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm

 

[Matt_Collins]

I sincerely thank you all for the responses. However, I still don’t know what “grave matter” is.

I understand that grave matter (with full knowledge and full consent of the will) ruptures one’s relationship with God…but what exactly does it take to rupture one’s relationship with God?

My point is that there isn’t a list you can check where if it’s on the list then it’s grave matter, and if it’s not on the list it’s not grave matter. You have to form your conscience to figure it out. You have to look to the guidelines Jesus and the Church give us for figuring it out, and then apply the guidelines to the situation at hand.

And the most certain guideline is love. The kind of love Jesus has for us, as reflected in the love of a husband and wife. All the other guidelines are intended to help us see things in the context of love.

If, as an adult, someone doesn’t have the ability to know what kinds of things would rupture the relationship of a husband and wife, then they know nothing about love. It’s not an all-inclusive list we run around with in our heads. It’s something we recognize when we see it.

Certainly the 10 Commandments are a starting point. But as Jimmy Akin points out, it’s not quite that simple. Beating one’s wife is not explicitly on that list, but we know it’s serious matter.

You have to have the courage to form your conscience in love and truth, and then live by it. Don’t expect the Church to pronounce every conceivable sin as being serious matter or non-serious matter.

Mature Christian morality isn’t a matter of looking things up on a list. It involves learning to apply the teachings of Christ in our daily lives. It involves accepting the fact that there will always be gray area, and that the gray area is always an invitation to grow in love.

 

[NMJenny]

Here is a question that has recently confused me:

1. We know what venial sins are.
2. We know mortal sins require three conditions (objectively grave, know it, assent to do it).

So if someone does an objectively grave sin, say abortion, and truly (God judges) does not know it’s evil, does this make it a venial sin?

It wold seem to me a lot of people fall into this category. I assume it is venial, yet they have a lot of purgatory to do as it’s a grave sin whose consequences and affinity for must be cleansed from their soul?

A mortal sin will always be “mortal”–someone’s lack of understanding of its gravity doesn’t reduce the sin to a venial one. Instead, if the person truly does not understand the seriousness of the sin he has committed, because of his lack of knowlege he will be excused from the consequences which would normally attach to a mortal sin …

 

[Matt_Collins]

A mortal sin will always be “mortal”–someone’s lack of understanding of its gravity doesn’t reduce the sin to a venial one. Instead, if the person truly does not understand the seriousness of the sin he has committed, because of his lack of knowlege he will be excused from the consequences which would normally attach to a mortal sin …

Actually, I don’t think that’s the case. A mortal sin is one that will send a person to hell if they die without repenting. That’s why it’s called mortal.

I think the distinction you’re trying to make is that the serious matter remains serious matter, whether or not the sinner recognizes that fact.

That’s why the Church has always said that the three conditions of serious matter, full knowledge, and full consent must be simultaneously present for a sin to be mortal. If any one of those three conditions is not present, then a mortal sin has not been committed.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Here is a question that has recently confused me:

1. We know what venial sins are.
2. We know mortal sins require three conditions (objectively grave, know it, assent to do it).

So if someone does an objectively grave sin, say abortion, and truly (God judges) does not know it’s evil, does this make it a venial sin?

It wold seem to me a lot of people fall into this category. I assume it is venial, yet they have a lot of purgatory to do as it’s a grave sin whose consequences and affinity for must be cleansed from their soul?

My understanding (no Nihil Obstat on this post) is that, lacking all three of the requisite conditions for mortal sin, one who commits an objectively grave sin is not in a state of mortal sin.

In your example, if one procures an abortion without full knowledge that it is mortally sinful, one would not be in a state of mortal sin.

Peace,
Dante

 

[Proletarian]

“Grave matter,” along with full knowledge and full consent of the will are required in order for something to constitute a mortal sin. So what exactly is “grave matter”?

I have yet to see an authoritative definition–or better yet–a list of examples.

Quite simply “grave sins” are those that God views as utterly detestable. It hard to say what constitutes “grave matter” because Gods reasoning is beyond us; the best we can do is understand which sins constitute grave sin as opposed to understanding why they constitute grave sin.

So to answer your question, I cant give you an authoritative definition of “grave matter”, but I can give you a pretty comprehensive list.

saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html

 

[Transformer]

A mortal sin will always be “mortal”–someone’s lack of understanding of its gravity doesn’t reduce the sin to a venial one. Instead, if the person truly does not understand the seriousness of the sin he has committed, because of his lack of knowlege he will be excused from the consequences which would normally attach to a mortal sin …

I believe you have the concept right, but I don’t think your technical terminology is totally correct. If a lack of understanding reduces one’s culpability for a gravely evil act, that act is not a mortal sin; mortal sins, by basic definition, require full knowledge. The act is, of course, still gravely evil. To put it as clearly as possible, the act is absolutely just as evil as it would have been if the person had full knowledge, it is just less the person’s fault. It is not, though, called a “mortal sin.”

God bless.

 

[AndyF]

You have to form your conscience to figure it out. You have to look to the guidelines Jesus and the Church give us for figuring it out, and then apply the guidelines to the situation at hand.

Not that simple.

If the object of the sex drive is to ensure the organism probagates, then every action that he does either directly or indirectly steers him to that end and is simply an instrument to assist that process. In sex there is an intrinsic motive that says “Mate with someone”.

For example the venial wink,lipstick,etc is seen has less serious than the mortal lust, when nature provided these to ensure that the person progresses to the final satisfaction of procreation. There is no difference between the two in motive, even if underlying, but in subtlty and obviousness.

So in the sexual component, any law simply defines degrees of acceptable behaviour along the sexual progression path. In reality as sex is concerned, rigid inflexable rules ensure there can never be a venial component as the attractive action is a function of the whole in purpose.

A person who flaunts herself in undies at a prospect, and one that puts lipstick on, are both common in their manifesting their drive to have sex realized through hopeful attraction. Although levels of consciousness may be involved, the underlying purpose is not defined by themselves as it would seem, but by their primitive natures given by God.

AndyF