So let's talk about today's readings 10/4/09

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cheeto1

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October 4, 2009

Reading 1
Gn 2:18-24

The LORD God said: “It is not good for the man to be alone.
I will make a suitable partner for him.”
So the LORD God formed out of the ground
various wild animals and various birds of the air,
and he brought them to the man to see what he would call them;
whatever the man called each of them would be its name.
The man gave names to all the cattle,
all the birds of the air, and all wild animals;
but none proved to be the suitable partner for the man. So the LORD God cast a deep sleep on the man,
and while he was asleep,
he took out one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh.
The LORD God then built up into a woman the rib
that he had taken from the man.
When he brought her to the man, the man said:
“This one, at last, is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one shall be called 'woman, ’
for out of 'her man’ this one has been taken.”
That is why a man leaves his father and mother
and clings to his wife,
and the two of them become one flesh.

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 128:1-2, 3, 4-5, 6

R. (cf. 5) ** May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.**
Blessed are you who fear the LORD,
who walk in his ways!
For you shall eat the fruit of your handiwork;
blessed shall you be, and favored.
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine
in the recesses of your home;
your children like olive plants
around your table.
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
Behold, thus is the man blessed
who fears the LORD.
The LORD bless you from Zion:
may you see the prosperity of Jerusalem
all the days of your life.
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
May you see your children’s children.
Peace be upon Israel!
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.

Reading II
Heb 2:9-11 Brothers and sisters:
He “for a little while” was made "lower than the angels, "
that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
For it was fitting that he,
for whom and through whom all things exist,
in bringing many children to glory,
should make the leader to their salvation perfect through suffering.
He who consecrates and those who are being consecrated
all have one origin.
Therefore, he is not ashamed to call them “brothers.”

Gospel
Mk 10:2-16 or 10:2-12

The Pharisees approached Jesus and asked,
“Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?”
They were testing him.
He said to them in reply, “What did Moses command you?”
They replied,
“Moses permitted a husband to write a bill of divorce
and dismiss her.”
But Jesus told them,
“Because of the hardness of your hearts
he wrote you this commandment.
But from the beginning of creation, *God made them male and female. *
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother
and be joined to his wife,
and the two shall become one flesh
.
So they are no longer two but one flesh.
Therefore what God has joined together,
no human being must separate.”
In the house the disciples again questioned Jesus about this.
He said to them,
“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another
commits adultery against her;
and if she divorces her husband and marries another,
she commits adultery.” And people were bringing children to him that he might touch them,
but the disciples rebuked them.
When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them,
“Let the children come to me;
do not prevent them, for the kingdom of God belongs to
such as these.
Amen, I say to you,
whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child
will not enter it.”
Then he embraced them and blessed them,
placing his hands on them.
or
The Pharisees approached Jesus and asked,
“Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?”
They were testing him.
He said to them in reply, “What did Moses command you?”
They replied,
“Moses permitted a husband to write a bill of divorce
and dismiss her.”
But Jesus told them,
“Because of the hardness of your hearts
he wrote you this commandment.
But from the beginning of creation, *God made them male and female. *
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother
and be joined to his wife,
and the two shall become one flesh.

So they are no longer two but one flesh.
Therefore what God has joined together,
no human being must separate.”
In the house the disciples again questioned Jesus about this.
He said to them,
“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another
commits adultery against her;
and if she divorces her husband and marries another,
she commits adultery.”
 
“The LORD God said: “It is not good for the man to be alone.
I will make a suitable partner for him.””
– Well, it seems God didn’t do such a good job with that, seeing as Eve wrecked
the whole world. How could there be a less suitable partner? What if Adam had
divorced Eve over this?

“Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine”
– A wife is mentioned again…

“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another
commits adultery against her;
and if she divorces her husband and marries another,
she commits adultery”
–After this comes the part about Jesus blessing the children. It seems like it
doesn’t belong here. In fact, it is optional today to just leave that part out.
Think how much Jesus has been talking about children this week in the daily
readings. On Monday, He said to welcome children, Thursday was the day of
St. Theresa of the Child Jesus, and Jesus said children were the greatest in the
kingdom of heaven. Friday was guardian angel day, and Jesus said childrens
angels see God every day. On Saturday, Jesus said that God hides things
from the clever and the learned, and reveals them to children. Now today, on
divorce day, He blesses the children, after saying “don’t get divorced”(& married
to someone else).

What does it mean? It might have something to do with “the two become one body”.

Today is also the day of St. Francis. Did anyone have their pets blessed?

So what struck you about today’s readings? :bible1::twocents:
 
I’ve done a lot of meditation on Gen 2 over the years, even did a commentary on it, and what sticks out to me is how important that passage is to Christianity and marriage. The same goes for the Gospel reading. Those are 2 passages that married couples need to spend a lot of time getting to understand.
 
and what sticks out to me is how important that passage is to Christianity and marriage. The same goes for the Gospel reading. Those are 2 passages that married couples need to spend a lot of time getting to understand.
What does it say to you about Christianity and marriage?
And what kind of understanding have you come to about the gospel?
 
I think that this just speaks once again about how man was made for woman and woman was made for man. A man and a woman together is the only way to become one flesh.

The gospel reiterates this beautifully when Jesus speaks boldly saying that what God has put together let no man separate. Being a former protestant I saw divorce as wrong but just a sin like other commandments. I never thought about how once you are married it is for life. It does not matter if one obtains a civil divorce. I am recently married and I am over joyed everyday that I have a strong catholic woman who cherishes marriage just as much as I do.
 
I just love the general audience lectures Pope John Paul II did on these first chapters of Genesis. They’ve been incorporated in the book “Theology of the Body” for anyone who wants to read them.

Pope John spoke of the “original solitude” experienced by Adam. Previously, I had never thought about what it must have been like to be the first human in existence (no history to read or remember); and the ONLY human person in existence. Of course, my first thought was that God was there for Adam to communicate with. But then I realized God is here now for me to communicate with - yet, there is still that desire to speak to other humans, in a physically audible manner where one can not only hear their expressions, but see them. As the Pope noted, with this original solitude, God was leading Adam (teaching him you might say) to desire another human person like himself to have a relationship with.

When I put myself in Adam’s place, imagining having all these animals brought to me, I can see that it must have been interesting and nice to discover other living creatures. And yet it would only serve to make it more clear that something was missing. I can just imagine the elation he must have felt when he woke up and here was another human - someone he could relate to on an equal basis (not less-animals; not One way more-God). Rather, someone it was possible to love with mind and body on a human level. I don’t know about Adam, but I’d have been jumping up and down as I yelled out “Here at last is bone of my bone…”
 
A couple of things to point out.
  1. Eve did not wreck the whole world. Adam did. The two are one BUT Adam is the head of the wife. That is why it’s always referred to in scripture as the “Sin of Adam”. “Through one man, sin entered the world…” Adam was standing right there through the whole exchange. You’ll notice upon close reading that when Eve bit the fruit nothing happened. It was only when Adam (head) bit that their eyes were opened and it became sin. I find this interesting being myself a former evangelical, that most catholics don’t recognize this. Then along comes the new eve (Blessed Mother) and the new Adam (Jesus). Mary was born sinless first and lived a sinless life. In the Gospel of Luke, Mary say’s yes to the Angel. We know that Mary still, could not atone for our sins, But she bore the “Fruit” (Jesus) that could. It wasn’t until the Head of the bride, suffered, died and rose that we could be justified, or made right with God. But now we all must “Bite, chew the new “Fruit”. “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life”!!! John chapter 6. The parallels are amazing!
  2. When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them,
    “Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the kingdom of God belongs to
    such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child
    will not enter it.” Then he embraced them and blessed them, placing his hands on them.
I believe the point being made by our Lord here is that, he just spoken a very firm/strict commandment.

“He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her;
and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

We must accept like little children whatever the Lord teaches us and commands of us. We must just say, Yes Lord, We’ll obey.

Besides all of this, My wife told me Saturday that we will be having another baby. This will be our 12th child (Blessing) from the Lord! So the reading were very meaningful to me!

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 128:1-2, 3, 4-5, 6

R. (cf. 5) May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
Blessed are you who fear the LORD,
who walk in his ways!
For you shall eat the fruit of your handiwork;
blessed shall you be, and favored.
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine
in the recesses of your home;
your children like olive plants
around your table.
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
Behold, thus is the man blessed
who fears the LORD.
The LORD bless you from Zion:
may you see the prosperity of Jerusalem
all the days of your life.
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
May you see your children’s children.
Peace be upon Israel!
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.

AMEN, thank you Lord!!!
 
I think that this just speaks once again about how man was made for woman and woman was made for man.
Really? I don’t get that as all.

If you take the Genesis passage literally, I think it says that God’s first choice was for Adam to take an animal as a partner, and that it was only when Adam found none to his liking that woman was created as a “Plan B”.

If Adam had found a suitable animal partner, would Eve have been created? The passage suggests not. How then can you say that man was made for woman?
 
Really? I don’t get that as all.

If you take the Genesis passage literally, I think it says that God’s first choice was for Adam to take an animal as a partner, and that it was only when Adam found none to his liking that woman was created as a “Plan B”.

If Adam had found a suitable animal partner, would Eve have been created? The passage suggests not. How then can you say that man was made for woman?
I have never heard anyone say this before. In your opinion, what animal might have
been more suitable than a human for a partner?
 
I have never heard anyone say this before. In your opinion, what animal might have
been more suitable than a human for a partner?
I have absolutely no clue. But going by Genesis, God was apparently open to the possibility that it would’ve been any of them.
 
MD Powell, that was a very good post. Welcome to the forums, hope you will have
many pleasant discussions here…

So, with Adam standing right there, you say that he should have been a hero
and said “stop!” to Eve, before it was too late. Was he really standing right there?
Or had she already eaten it, then went to show him that she wasn’t dead, and it was
all good…but…I do find it very interesting that you pointed out nothing happened when
only Eve ate the fruit. Why did nothing happen? And why in the world did they think
they did wrong after Adam ate it? They were both still alive.

With all those children, I don’t know how you find time to think so straight, and write
it down. Here’s another parallel: 12 for the 12 apostles, and the 12 tribes of Israel…
You have a truly holy family!

R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives…Amen!

Thank you for taking a moment here 🙂
 
Pope John spoke of the “original solitude” experienced by Adam. Previously, I had never thought about what it must have been like to be the first human in existence
I thought of that a long time ago when we got a pet kitten. I thought he must be
lonely being the only cat in the family and everyone else is people. They can all
talk to each other, but he can’t understand. I thought what it would be like to be the
only person and everyone was animals and how lonely that would be not to know
the language. Thanks for telling us about “Theology of the Body”…
 
I think that this just speaks once again about how man was made for woman and woman was made for man. A man and a woman together is the only way to become one flesh.

The gospel reiterates this beautifully when Jesus speaks boldly saying that what God has put together let no man separate. Being a former protestant I saw divorce as wrong but just a sin like other commandments. I never thought about how once you are married it is for life. It does not matter if one obtains a civil divorce. I am recently married and I am over joyed everyday that I have a strong catholic woman who cherishes marriage just as much as I do.
Welcome njackson88, I’d have to agree with your first paragraph, what do you think
of gearhead’s idea? May your marriage be blessed always… 🙂
 
I want to start and say that I would have to confess that I have never thought about the way gearhead laid it out. Obviously from God’s stand point an animal alone was never going to be a suitable partner for man. I think that since Adam had not yet fallen into sin he was able to recognize that he was meant for something else from the beginning.
Also can anyone tell me how to make a quote on my post
 
Obviously from God’s stand point an animal alone was never going to be a suitable partner for man.
Also can anyone tell me how to make a quote on my post
You just got me thinking about the way part of Adam was used to make eve.
What if God used part of Himself to make Adam? He fashioned him “out of the
clay of the ground” and then blew a breath of life into him. Supposing that was
a part of His Holy Spirit?

To make a quote, you don’t click on “post reply”. Instead, when you see a post
you want to specifically respond to, you click the little box on the lower right of it
that says “quote”. The person’s post you are responding to will then come up for
you as the first part of your reply post.
 
A couple of things to point out.
  1. Eve did not wreck the whole world. Adam did. The two are one BUT Adam is the head of the wife. That is why it’s always referred to in scripture as the “Sin of Adam”. “Through one man, sin entered the world…” Adam was standing right there through the whole exchange. You’ll notice upon close reading that when Eve bit the fruit nothing happened. It was only when Adam (head) bit that their eyes were opened and it became sin. I find this interesting being myself a former evangelical, that most catholics don’t recognize this. Then along comes the new eve (Blessed Mother) and the new Adam (Jesus). Mary was born sinless first and lived a sinless life. In the Gospel of Luke, Mary say’s yes to the Angel. We know that Mary still, could not atone for our sins, But she bore the “Fruit” (Jesus) that could. It wasn’t until the Head of the bride, suffered, died and rose that we could be justified, or made right with God. But now we all must “Bite, chew the new “Fruit”. “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life”!!! John chapter 6. The parallels are amazing!
  2. When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them,
    “Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the kingdom of God belongs to
    such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child
    will not enter it.” Then he embraced them and blessed them, placing his hands on them.
I believe the point being made by our Lord here is that, he just spoken a very firm/strict commandment.

“He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her;
and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

We must accept like little children whatever the Lord teaches us and commands of us. We must just say, Yes Lord, We’ll obey.

Besides all of this, My wife told me Saturday that we will be having another baby. This will be our 12th child (Blessing) from the Lord! So the reading were very meaningful to me!

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 128:1-2, 3, 4-5, 6

R. (cf. 5) May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
Blessed are you who fear the LORD,
who walk in his ways!
For you shall eat the fruit of your handiwork;
blessed shall you be, and favored.
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine
in the recesses of your home;
your children like olive plants
around your table.
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
Behold, thus is the man blessed
who fears the LORD.
The LORD bless you from Zion:
may you see the prosperity of Jerusalem
all the days of your life.
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.
May you see your children’s children.
Peace be upon Israel!
R. May the Lord bless us all the days of our lives.

AMEN, thank you Lord!!!
Congratulations on the new addition to your family~
CC
 
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