So let's talk about today's readings 7/4/09

[cheeto1]

usccb.org/nab/today.shtml

“Although the voice is Jacob’s, the hands are Esau’s.”
“Isaac smelled the fragrance of his clothes.”

I just don’t think I would have fallen for this. I think I would go by the person’s
voice, not their touch or smell. But, I think he was convinced by eating the food,
because Jacob’s mother had to dress him and make the food. He probably knew
that Jacob could never make that delicious food, but that Esau could.
What do you think? Would you be fooled by Jacob?

Then the blessing:
“Be master of your brothers,
and may your mother’s sons bow down to you.”
There was only one other son to bow down to him, wasn’t there?

This from today’s psalm:
“our LORD is greater than all gods”
Well, that’s because the other gods are demons!

And now today’s gospel:
“The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them,
and then they will fast”
So then, did the disciples fast after Jesus was taken up to heaven? Did the
early Christians? If so, what was their method of fasting? Fasting from what and
for how long?
And in the patch and wineskin examples, is Jesus saying that Christianity can
not be affixed or poured into Judaism? Why, since His coming was a fullfillment
of it all?

Today is the day of St. Elizabeth of Portugal.

So what struck you about today’s readings? :bible1::twocents:

Happy 4th of July!!! We never have a parade and fireworks for Jesus, do we?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Re Jacob’s and Rebecka’s deception:

Note that both were immediately punished by being immediately separated and never seeing each other again.

Jacob was further punished when Laban practiced the same deceit on him when he passed Leah off as Rachel in their wedding.

And even further punished when his sons deceived him as to Joseph’s death.

 

[NeedImprovement]

In his book/treatise True Devotion to Mary , St. Louis de Montfort proposes quite a striking analogy to this very passage in sacred scripture comparing Rebecca to the Blessed Mother and Jacob to children who are devoted to our Blessed Mother.

Although one could be advised to take into consideration the time when the book was written, (early 1700’s ), Pope John Paul II said in an address to the De Montfort Fathers that reading the French priest’s book True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin was “a decisive turning point in my life.”

The book is available online for free at several sites. Here is one link:

ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM

If you’d like to read the section applicable to today’s scriptures,at the webpage either click on CH. 5 - BIBLICAL FIGURE OF THIS PERFECT DEVOTION
or scroll down to
CHAPTER FIVE - BIBLICAL FIGURE OF THIS PERFECT DEVOTION:
REBECCA AND JACOB ,

and start reading at about section 183. I’ve never read anything like it. Here’s a short excerpt:

…204. 2) She gives them excellent advice, as Rebecca did to Jacob. “My son, follow my counsels.” Among other things, she persuades them to bring her the two young goats, that is, their body and soul, and to confide them to her so that she can prepare them as a dish pleasing to God. She inspires them to observe whatever Jesus Christ, her Son, has taught by word and example. When she does not give these counsels herself in person, she gives them through the ministry of angels who are always pleased and honoured to go at her request to assist one of her faithful servants on earth.

1. 1. What does this good Mother do when we have presented and consecrated to her our soul and body and all that pertains to them without excepting anything? Just what Rebecca of old did to the little goats Jacob brought her. (a) She kills them, that is, makes them die to the life of the old Adam. (b) She strips them of their skin, that is, of their natural inclinations, their self-love and self-will and their every attachment to creatures. (c) She cleanses them from all stain, impurity and sin. (d) She prepares them to God’s taste and to his greater glory. As she alone knows perfectly what the divine taste is and where the greatest glory of God is to be found, she alone without any fear of mistake can prepare and garnish our body and soul to satisfy that infinitely refined taste and promote that infinitely hidden glory.

 

[cheeto1]

Re Jacob’s and Rebecka’s deception:

Note that both were immediately punished by being immediately separated and never seeing each other again.

Jacob was further punished when Laban practiced the same deceit on him when he passed Leah off as Rachel in their wedding.

And even further punished when his sons deceived him as to Joseph’s death.

And then Jacob’s whole family was punished by being led into slavery…

 

[cheeto1]

CHAPTER FIVE - BIBLICAL FIGURE OF THIS PERFECT DEVOTION:
REBECCA AND JACOB ,

Even your short exerpt is hard to follow, I have never read anything like this before
either. I really am stuck with the idea we could be compared to the goats that
were prepared for Isaac… And that Mary’s personality could be compared with
Rebecca’s deceitful one… though this actually was not asserted in your writings…
Thanks for sharing this…

 

[NeedImprovement]

I felt I was able to deal with the “deceit” issue because, according to the scriptures, Esau sold his birthright to Jacob.

The firstborn received a special blessing and I believe it was usually the custom to also confer on the firstborn a double portion of the inheritance.

So, I kind of perceive it as Rebecca helping Jacob procure what was rightfully sold to him by Esau. That particular transaction is related in in Genesis 25: 27-33 :

Genesis 25 : 27-33

27 The boys grew up, and Esau became a skillful hunter, a man of the open country, while Jacob was a quiet man, staying among the tents. 28 Isaac, who had a taste for wild game, loved Esau, but Rebekah loved Jacob.
29 Once when Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau came in from the open country, famished. 30 He said to Jacob, “Quick, let me have some of that red stew! I’m famished!” (That is why he was also called Edom. [g] )
31 Jacob replied, “First sell me your birthright.”
32 “Look, I am about to die,” Esau said. “What good is the birthright to me?”
33 But Jacob said, “Swear to me first.” So he swore an oath to him, selling his birthright to Jacob.

• I don’t think I could read anything that would imply deceit (even analogically ) in Our Blessed Mother.

 

[cheeto1]

So, I kind of perceive it as Rebecca helping Jacob procure what was rightfully sold to him by Esau.

Do you really think it was “rightfully” sold to him? Is that what you would do to
your brother who was weak with hunger? That birthright should have been the right
of his birth, an inalienable right, like the constitution. But, I guess if you think about
it, he wasn’t really born first…

 

[NeedImprovement]

Do you really think it was “rightfully” sold to him? …

“Rightfully” as opposed to “wrongfully” - no. But it’s a difficult word needed here as a descriptive. Perhaps the word “plainly” would be a better fit. My focus was still on the “deception” we’d been considering. The attempt was to point out that there didn’t seem to be very much actual deceit in what Jacob did to get the birthright. Deceit is when we deliberately try to mislead someone (or ourselves). What we’re given in scripture states Jacob was totally up front about what he was requesting.

Is that what you would do to your brother who was weak with hunger? … .

No I wouldn’t…Actually, I’d probably try to avoid doing at least 75% of what is recounted in the book of Genesis to my brother, sister or neighbor. For example,Chapter 30 in Genesis starts getting pretty messy from the perspective of human conduct.

But this was a pre- 10 Commandments era, so one is left wondering what was used as the code for moral conduct (certainly not the constitution ).

I find this recurring theme of punishment mentioned by the contributors to the thread to be a most plausible one. But what is more interesting to me is the stronger recurring theme of reconciliation within the family which runs alongside it:

Jacob procures Esau’s birthright. Esau is consumed with hatred for Jacob and plots to kill him. In Genesis 33 the two brothers, now very well off are finally reconciled when [33:4] , “Esau ran to meet him, embraced him, and flinging himself on his neck, kissed him as he wept.” This so closely resembles the father of the prodigal son who,[Luke 15:20-21] when his son was still a long way off, “…caught sight of him and was deeply moved. He ran out to meet him, threw his arms around his neck, and kissed him.”

After Jacob’s sons originally plot to kill their brother Joseph out of jealousy, then instead are convinced to sell him into slavery, Joseph later becomes second most powerful man in Egypt and shows mercy to his brothers when they are famished. Finally all are reconciled in tearful encounters.

There are certain challenges which can materialize when we’re reading the Old Testament. For example,( too often for my liking) in homilies I’ve heard, “Do you really think God told Abraham to kill his own son ? Do you really think Abraham would try to kill his own son?” This type of human reasoning isn’t necessarily helpful in reading the scriptures, since when we use it we can sometimes run the risk of emptying scripture of its supernatural content. For that specific part of scripture, a much more edifying perspective is to consider these similarities:

Issac was an only son of Abraham and Sarah (Hagar and Ishmael were banished).
Jesus is the only Son of God.

Issac was to be sacrificed/immolated to God on the altar.
Jesus was to be Sacrificed/immolated on the altar of Calvary.

Issac carried the wood for the sacrifice on his back.
Jesus carried his Cross to Golgotha on his back.

When we consider prefigurement in this sense, it’s easier to see how Abraham was chosen and considered God’s “friend.”