So, now what?

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JackPaul

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I am in the mood to rant and rave. I just got home from my weekly men’s group that is sponsored by our Church and a few things are starting to gripe me. Want to see if anyone else has had similar issues or if I’m just being a cry baby???

Last year I completed RCIA and immediately began my Church’s only nightly adult group for the laity, a mens only group. They have recently started a group for women and have a group that meets in the daytime, In total, they have about 25 people who are attending the much talked about adult formation/education/prayer groups. Tonight we were told that they would no longer pay for our materials. Materials? Does that mean we have to bring our own coffee? They haven’t supplied squat! We haven’t seen a Priest for a year because they are too busy. With who? All the other groups that aren’t meeting?

I wanted to join a group of faithful Catholics who knew and practiced their faith. Boy was I disappointed. One guy thinks the Eucarist becomes the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ after he eats it and not before. Yet another thinks that communion is not a big deal and we should give it to anyone who wants it. If they don’t believe it is the body of Christ, then it is not the body of Christ to them. Another don’t believe in confession and hasn’t been in about 20 years. Yet, this is the best we have got! I have tired to gently persuade and argue the position that I was taught in RCIA and they look at me like I am crazy (dumb new guy).

Next, our Church has given up CLOW. They can’t talk the novices into teaching it and they don’t like how the volunteers do it, so they only do it one week a month. They think it is better for the parents to teach their kids how to behave in the Church. I would agree if the parents had been taught by their parents. But if you leave this teaching to the idiots in the pews you might have a brand new generation of idiots.

I know the Priests are busy. They do a funeral or two each week and have to do a Mass every other day. But hey, my job is no pick nick either. I would think that if they put adult education in their mission statement that someone should show up once in awhile to see what their doing. I don’t know how one of us low life laity will ever get to know a priest. I guess if your one of the big money givers, you might invite them to diner, but I don’t think they want to socialize with us low lifes.

I am not seeing the gospel message lived out and portrayed by our Church and this is really bothering me. Has anyone else seen this type of thing happen in your Church and if so, what did you do about it? Last year we had a very different Church, but we had two very different Priests. Things have changed…
 
How does one make a complaint in the Catholic Church about such issues?

-D
 
Dont be too upset, that is the world today. Our founding fathers took the pure spring water that Jesus left us, and started a beautiful stream. But we have had 1000 years of heretics dumping there sewage in and now its a big river of swill. To purify now takes much discipline. If you havent noticed, there is a shortage of that in this part of the world. We see with our faith now, not our eyes. It is sad, but we have to do the best we can with what we have to work with. kno what i mean?
 
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JackPaul:
I am in the mood to rant and rave. I just got home from my weekly men’s group that is sponsored by our Church and a few things are starting to gripe me. Want to see if anyone else has had similar issues or if I’m just being a cry baby???
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Hello, I feel sorry for you, but we all have to put up with this garbage from liberal priests, even in my own Parish.
So being a Cradle Catholic I know my faith the way I was taught it, and I never listen to these liberal priests.
You might try sending a letter to the Bishop, at best read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it’s all in there.
It will tell you about Transubstantiation and so forth, it’s hard for you to put up a fight for the truth because the ones that you trust should know better.
Any priest that says that about the Host is not faithfull to the teachings of the Church, and I never listen to them.
What I learned as a child about my faith was good enough then and it’s good enough for me now, so I won’t be changing for these priests.
Do think of putting pen to paper and writing to a higher authority, and then again theres always this forum, if you have problems, get on here and we will try and keep you right.
 
Jack,

Priests are stretched very thin right now.
Unless I misunderstood your post, I didn’t hear you claim that you had a liberal priest who preached bad theology. Try to meet him face to face, or write him a letter detailing your concerns. This is a serious matter. The laity have lapsed into error on the most important doctrines of the Catholic Church. These people are in dire need of proper instruction. Maybe you could hold the meeting at your home? May God Bless you.
 
The problem is that now, if a priest follows the law to the letter, the parish hates him. when they want a marriage to a protestant blessed or something out side the guidelines of the law and the priest says “no can do” they simply leave! society likes “the cool priest”. we *want *lawlessness. if a priest says to a parish “everyone in church today that is on birth control is a sinner”. it would probably be the last time he saw half of them. We the people are as responsible for it as they are. we complain the rain forest is disapearing but we like inexpensive lumber. our demand is doing it but we dont wanna see it.
we brought priests “down to earth” and now complain they are not holy. The original church was built on faith, obedience, disipline and law. now today, faith is weak, and the rest is nearly gone. they give us an inch, we wont stop till we get a mile. I think the second vatican counsil was an example of that. in an effort to make a more politically correct church, they let down some fences a little, and we stampeded. Priests are no exception. Its sad aint it? obedience is not a instinct. it requires discipline. we’d rather have it simple and lacks. before you turn him in, why dont you write him a letter yourself?
 
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JackPaul:
One guy thinks the Eucarist becomes the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ after he eats it and not before. Yet another thinks that communion is not a big deal and we should give it to anyone who wants it. If they don’t believe it is the body of Christ, then it is not the body of Christ to them. Another don’t believe in confession and hasn’t been in about 20 years. Yet, this is the best we have got! I have tired to gently persuade and argue the position that I was taught in RCIA and they look at me like I am crazy (dumb new guy).
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:hmmm: I wonder what the Boss had in mind when he sent you, an informed Convert into this mixed-up group?

I (an informed Convert) get the same thing, but the issue is usually reproductive ethics.

Why is God sending Converts into the Church? To save it from itself. He didn’t tell us it would be easy!
 
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1samuel:
The problem is that now, if a priest follows the law to the letter, the parish hates him. when they want a marriage to a protestant blessed or something out side the guidelines of the law and the priest says “no can do” they simply leave! society likes “the cool priest”. we *want *lawlessness. if a priest says to a parish “everyone in church today that is on birth control is a sinner”. it would probably be the last time he saw half of them. We the people are as responsible for it as they are. we complain the rain forest is disapearing but we like inexpensive lumber. our demand is doing it but we dont wanna see it.
we brought priests “down to earth” and now complain they are not holy. The original church was built on faith, obedience, disipline and law. now today, faith is weak, and the rest is nearly gone. they give us an inch, we wont stop till we get a mile. I think the second vatican counsil was an example of that. in an effort to make a more politically correct church, they let down some fences a little, and we stampeded. Priests are no exception. Its sad aint it? obedience is not a instinct. it requires discipline. we’d rather have it simple and lacks. before you turn him in, why dont you write him a letter yourself?
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Amen 1Samuel! Relativism is poisoning the Catholic Church. It’s all about obedience. Obedience to 2000 years of truth!

:yup:
 
I too get upset over the state of our Church. A good friend of mine and I were talking about it and he said “What a good thing God has done for us to allow us to live in these times”. And he is absolutely correct.

Even though it is difficult, remain true to the faith and be a beacon for your brothers and sisters.

ybiC,
Trevor
 
Hey Jack!
God love ya…
Here’s how you beat 'em at their own game my friend. No materials? No problem…Everyone signs up online for The Catholic Home Study Service course that you guys decide to do…(There are seven great ones and a few that are only available once you complete them.) amm.org/chss/chss.htm

I would suggest " WE BELIEVE… A SURVEY OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH" and then go from there, but that is up to you and your crazy guys. The answers are sent in over the net or by mail and all of you can dog each other out for poor scores. (LOL… One of my best friends took them at the same time I did and it was a real motivator to beat his scores by a couple of points on each course. We learned BUNCHES!)

How about showing up and listening to one of the free tapes or CDs from The Bible Christian Society or The Mary Foundation.
biblechristiansociety.com/
catholicity.com/

No cost (Ya probably got a decent boombox at the house anyway…and if not then they’re only 30 bucks at Wally World) and Great orthodox Catholic teaching to boot. You might call someone in your parrish and tell 'em that you’ll volunteer to help with it and see what happens.

Don’t give up though. Pray, fast, and commit to doing what you can to build up the church, and in so doing build yourself up as well. Then trust the Holy Spirit to do the rest. He will.
Pax vobiscum,
 
Hi Jack,
You sound the same way I did when I tried to get involved in my new parish a year 1/2 ago. Since then I have come to know the priests in my parish and all they have to deal with. I know you’re just blowing off steam but hang in there. As for no materials remember, “When all you have is nothing, there’s alot to go around”.
Peace and God Bless You on your mission.
 
Have you considered starting a group? I belong to a group that meets every week for Eucharistic adoration, and then goes out to a restaurant. I belong to another group that once a week gets together to discuss Theology of the Body. If you okay it with your pastor, and have something put in your bulletin and the bulletins of nearby parishes about Eucharistic Adoration, or a book or encyclical discussion group, you will probably attract the more orthodox members. How about a blurb in the bulletin like this:
Code: 
      Meet Jesus Face to Face!
Come worship Our Lord In the
Most Holy Eucharist
Followed by Coffee ond Conversation.

or this:

John Paul II, We Love You!
Join us for a
Book Discussin Gorup
Reading the Pope’s
Theology of the Body

Our groups attract a wonderful group of people of all ages. I have made close friends who are solid Catholics and companions for the spiritual life this way. I hope this helps!

Yours,
Jessica
 
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Mickey:
Jack,

Priests are stretched very thin right now.
Unless I misunderstood your post, I didn’t hear you claim that you had a liberal priest who preached bad theology. Try to meet him face to face, or write him a letter detailing your concerns. This is a serious matter. The laity have lapsed into error on the most important doctrines of the Catholic Church. These people are in dire need of proper instruction. Maybe you could hold the meeting at your home? May God Bless you.
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You are very right. I don’t want anyone to misunderstand, my Priests are not liberal and they are not teaching bad theology. But many of the laity have bad information. My complaint is that the Priest talk of the importantance of adult education and faith groups, but they wont show up to support them. I have called one of our Priests and he sugested we do lunch. What Priest can turn down free food? I was very emotional about this the other night and now I have cooled off, but it is still wrong that so many are going astray.
 
You folks have given lots of good suggestions. The part that gripes me is that I was a protestant before and I don’t want to be a protestant now and that is why I joined the RCC. I joined a men’s group that was sponsored by the Church because I wanted to be around practicing orthodox RC’s. Turns out, some of them are more confused than I am. For this reason, I think the group needs some professional direction. I intend to hang in there and pray for these people. I am going to meet with our Priest and see if we can work out a plan. Maybe one night a month he can do an encyclical or something.
 
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JackPaul:
You folks have given lots of good suggestions. The part that gripes me is that I was a protestant before and I don’t want to be a protestant now and that is why I joined the RCC. I joined a men’s group that was sponsored by the Church because I wanted to be around practicing orthodox RC’s. Turns out, some of them are more confused than I am. For this reason, I think the group needs some professional direction. I intend to hang in there and pray for these people. I am going to meet with our Priest and see if we can work out a plan. Maybe one night a month he can do an encyclical or something.
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I highly recommend Ecclesia De Eucharistia!
 
I just want to say that I share the same frustration. I have been Catholic for about 3 yrs. now. I find that many Catholic either don’t know the Church Teaching or rebel against it. Those that don’t know may only be partially to blame. I have read that the Church went througha period of poor catechesis and apparently Vatican II was used as an excuse by many to sort of “make up their own thing”. Have you read about Vatican II? I have only read a little and I’m sure some can comment on this that were around when this thing really hit the parishes, but the gist of it as I see it is it allowed some changes to occur, but the ole give an inch take a mile (human nature) kicked in and people sort of lost their sense of obedience. Vatican II council was not a bad thing, but apparently the way it was implemented has causeed problems that will take a long time to correct.

Newcomers can be a source of info. for those who simply didn’t have good teaching. We need to be humble about it, but we can maybe turn them on to the Catechism. I was talking with a woman who has been Catholic for over 70 years and you know what she asked? What is a Catechism? So, we need to know that the Church has gone through a lot and there are many generations within the Church. My personal opinion is that “baby boomers” are more likely to go against Church Teaching than those that are older because they were most affected by Vatican II changes as well as the rebellion against Government (1960’s thing). Younger people are likely to go with the way their parents taught them.

I’m sorry if I am offending anyone. I just think that Vietnam and the sexual revolution etc. affected the way people view authority and therefore affected the perception and operation of the Catholic Church. I only know what I see on tv about the Sixties. I’m a little too young to have experienced it, but I wonder if my hunch is right. Are the people who are farthest from Church Teaching, such as with the Eucharist, considered to be baby boomers (say between 65 and 55 approx.)??

Yes, I am ignorant on this baby boomer stuff, but I have just been observing a trend with age groups. Older (in their 70s) people seem to have more respect for Priests and the Mass. People in their 50’s and 60’s seem to feel less obligated to follow Church Teaching. I think it is a lack of respect for Her authority that stems from the whole Vietnam situation. I hope I’m not throwing this thread off track. I just want to say to be forgiving of those who may have been affected by events in the past and just do what you can to inform them in a humble way and remember that you can still learn from them, too. Just watch out for being misguided and be sure you have the resources to double check what they may tell you.

As far as seeing the Priest, why does that bother you? A Priest doesn’t need to be a buddy. Don’t worry about status or position in the Parish or you may lose track of what is really important. Remember that we are supposed to be humble. I just don’t understand why it bothers you that the priest doesn’t go to a “laity” meeting. The Priest probably does way more than you realize (visiting the sick at nursing homes, hospitals, committee meetings), but also it wouldn’t be a meeting of the laity, if the Priest is there. Without the Priest, I think you can learn more about your fellow Parishioners. You can learn who knows their religion and who doesn’t. So, I hope you are Catholic for the right reasons. Don’t let social matters get to you too much. I know it is frustrating, but pray that you can find the words to gently guide some people back to the Church Teaching and show how you respect the AUTHORITY of the Church. You may even get to the bottom of their rebelliousness - LIKE ARE THEY BABY BOOMER?😃
 
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JackPaul:
You folks have given lots of good suggestions. The part that gripes me is that I was a protestant before and I don’t want to be a protestant now and that is why I joined the RCC. I joined a men’s group that was sponsored by the Church because I wanted to be around practicing orthodox RC’s. Turns out, some of them are more confused than I am. For this reason, I think the group needs some professional direction. I intend to hang in there and pray for these people. I am going to meet with our Priest and see if we can work out a plan. Maybe one night a month he can do an encyclical or something.
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I converted in 1992. I feel your pain. One of my friends (a cradle catholic who got competitive with me when I knew more than her) and I started a bible study within our young adults group. She and I were the leaders, and I was just stunned that the participants (all cradle catholics) knew so little about their faith and dissented on so many teachings. At least in my group, most had an open mind and would at least listen to church teaching, and truly wanted to understand it. I think many dissented out of ignorance and lack of someone teaching them what and why when it comes to Church teaching at a younger age. Some even changed their minds, over time… a LONG time… One of them finally budged on the death penalty after 3 years!

The harvest is waiting and the workers are few. I totally get your need to find someone on your level to share your new-found faith with. However, as you have found out, it isn’t going to be in a parish group. **You are going to be the leader, the worker in the vineyard. God has plans for you. ** Now, 12 years later, I know that to be the case. But, I’ve been on parish council, in many groups within the parish, and done my best to influence it positively.

The place I found other seriously faithful, practicing Catholics who were knowledgeable of, and faithful to, church teaching was within the pro-life movement. I would suggest finding those people within your parish, diocese, or community (not all pro-life Catholics are doing their work through the parish, some are through crisis pregnancy centers or the local right-to-life groups). I got tired of being the bible study leader, and felt I needed more nourishment, and I came upon a group within my pro-life circle that were studying together, and they knew their stuff. It was nice to join up with them. Just a suggestion, broadening your horizons may put you in touch with just the people you are looking for-- because they ARE out there. Look at all of us here online!

I do think meeting with the priest is a good idea. I don’t believe that the priest looks at parishioners as the “money bags” and the “low lifes”. Actually, after being on parish council I know that the money bags are the ones that the priest dreads most b/c they think they own him and can pressure him to do as they want. I know that our priests are stretched very thin, and you would be amazed at all that they really squeeze in to their day.

I think if you tell the priest, as you have here, that you are concerned that a group that’s mission is Adult Education has no professional direction and share with him the direction it is going and what people are teaching/sharing he should be duly concerned and want to rectify the situation.
 
Thanks Guys,
I am looking forward to my lunch date. Our group has had guest speakers (Priests) on several occasions and everyone really seems to like those nights. I think the group is hungry for direction. I don’t think in needs to happen all the time, but once a month or every six weeks would be great. I really think some of these folks would appreciate a refresher.

As far as the baby boomer thing… I happen to be a baby boomer myself, so be careful with these stereo types. That is not to say that I don’t agree with you. I think there are a lot of folks with limited respect for the Church. Some older folks don’t know a lot about the rules or scripture, but they live a life so filled with prayer and grace that there is no doubting where there heart is. There are some young people that look like a deer in the headlights all the time, but they are still there and that’s more than we can say for some of the kids in their age group. Of course, we see everything in between and I have to assume that they all know more than I do.

Thanks again for your help…
 
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