So this is how one can describe the Trinity?

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theCardinalbird

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“In Catholic theology, we understand the persons of the Blessed Trinity subsisting within the inner life of God to be truly distinct relationally, but not as a matter of essence, or nature. Each of the three persons in the godhead possesses the same eternal and infinite divine nature; thus, they are the one, true God in essence or nature, not “three Gods.” Yet, they are truly distinct in their relations to each other.”

 
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That’s a nice, concise definition. However, in order to be able to unpack it, one must already possess quite a bit of theological understanding…
 
theCardinalbird said:
So using this definition when explaining the Trinity to the average Joe would cause some difficulty?
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Depends on how the average Joe understands “the persons of God”, “the essence/nature of God”, the “inner life of God”, what it means to “subsist”, and “distinctions in relations” within the Trinity… right? 😉
 
Gorgias said:
Depends on how the average Joe understands “the persons of God”, “the essence/nature of God”, the “inner life of God”, what it means to “subsist”, and “distinctions in relations” within the Trinity… right? 😉
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True. But may I ask, do you understand it? 🙂
 
theCardinalbird said:
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Gorgias:
Depends on how the average Joe understands “the persons of God”, “the essence/nature of God”, the “inner life of God”, what it means to “subsist”, and “distinctions in relations” within the Trinity… right? 😉
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True. But may I ask, do you understand it? 🙂
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I would hope that anyone who has had graduate work in theology – and many who have had undergraduate work in theology! – would understand what the statement is attempting to say.

(Not that this means that they’d have particular or superlative understanding of the Trinity itself, however – just that they’d understand the theological definitions! 😉 )
 
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If Jesus is the Word of God
and the Holy Spirit is the Breath of God,
then the Father is the _______________.

What could fill in the blank?
 
Gorgias said:
I would hope that anyone who has had graduate work in theology – and many who have had undergraduate work in theology! – would understand what the statement is attempting to say.

(Not that this means that they’d have particular or superlative understanding of the Trinity itself, however – just that they’d understand the theological definitions! 😉 )
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So if I were to look at that explanation of the Trinity and concluded that God has only one infinite divine nature but has 3 distinct divine persons (but not distinct in essence or nature), then I would be understanding it correctly?
 
theCardinalbird said:
So if I were to look at that explanation of the Trinity and concluded that God has only one infinite divine nature but has 3 distinct divine persons (but not distinct in essence or nature), then I would be understanding it correctly?
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As long as your understanding of God’s divine ‘nature’ as opposed to ‘persons’ was correct, as well as your understanding of what ‘persons’ implies… then, yeah!
 
theCardinalbird said:
Just a thought. Could you tell me what “persons” implies, just so that way I know whether or not I am correct in my understanding.
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Without launching into a dissertation, here’s a simple primer, straight from the Catechism:
252 The Church uses (I) the term “substance” (rendered also at times by “essence” or “nature”) to designate the divine being in its unity, (II) the term “person” or “hypostasis” to designate the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the real distinction among them, and (III) the term “relation” to designate the fact that their distinction lies in the relationship of each to the others.
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So… if you want to talk about a designation which reveals a distinction, as opposed to an analysis which uncovers a decomposition of parts, then we would use the term ‘person’ (in the theological sense) to mean that distinction of relationship between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

(One important point to keep in mind in this discussion is that what we usually think of when we say ‘person’ (with respect to a human) is very different than what we’re talking about when we discuss a Divine Person of the Trinity. (That gets us moving in the direction of a very long discussion of ‘essence’ and ‘existence’, though, so I’m not going to go down that rabbit hole here.) Suffice it to say that a human ‘person’ implies something quite different than a Divine Person of the Trinity.)
 
cathsc0115h theCardinalbird
If Jesus is the Word of God
and the Holy Spirit is the Breath of God,
then the Father is the _______________.

What could fill in the blank?
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“the Unsourced Source.”
 
I have used this definition to explain the Trinity, but I had to preface it with an explanation of “person” and “nature” and biblical support for the 4 relationships of God. It ended up being an one hour conversation, but he did understand and accept it.

Without that basis it just sound like you are saying 3=1 (to your average joe). Of course 3 =/=1 (in the mathematical sense), and some will dismiss your entire argument as illogical if they can’t understand the person/nature/relationship basis for your argument.
 
Agreed, in fact, it is such a mystery that while great minds have a better understanding than I do, no one this side of heaven can fully understand.
 
While we know that St Patrick never used the analogies he is “accused” of using, this cartoon does help us remember the analogies can actually harm our understanding:

 
You are able to breath and you are able to speak and you are the source of both of those things. Without you existence then your breath and your word would not exist. In simple terms, the Father is the essence of both and the originator of both, but all existed at the same time since one can’t live without the other.
 
Could the greatest commandments describe how Christ is one with the Father?

When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments.

God the Son loves God the Father with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.
Jesus loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.

God the Father loves God the Son, with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.
The Father loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.

Could the spirit be the power of God’s love, working through these commandments?

1 Samuel 18, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself.

Could God love us more than he loves himself?

Just a collection of words to challenge the mind to think.
 
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