So, we're not supposed to kill eachother, right?

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Clonereject1138

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Okay, we all know God said, “Thou shall not kill”, but then he says, “Wipe out the Philistines, Ammorites, ext…” So, could we pull a better late than never number, or was it a “Must eliminate by February 2” deal? And what about “Suffer not a witch to live”?
Are we still supposed to kill, or are we now listening to the, “love you neigbor as yourself” and the “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”(which would make executing people in the old testament nigh impossible 😉 )

So, which is it? Kind, forgiving merciful? Or, gotta kill you now 'fore you spread your sinful nature to the next generation?
 
It’s the “Love your neighbor as yourself” per Jesus/God Himself.

You are taking the wiping out of the Philistines and Amorites out of context. They only reaped what they sowed, knowing there would be consequences for their actions per the covenant their families entered into with God. God foretold what would happen to those people in earlier books of the Old Testament, but he allowed them many years to flourish and pretty much condemn themselves in His eyes. Their fate was in His hands, as for each of us.

God often uses His Chosen People to carry out His will, sometimes it was to render punishment on those who turned against Him. In the New Covenant He calls us to share His love in order to bring all souls to Him.
 
From the Catechism:

2261 Scripture specifies the prohibition contained in the fifth commandment: "Do not slay the innocent and the righteous."61 The deliberate murder of an innocent person is gravely contrary to the dignity of the human being, to the golden rule, and to the holiness of the Creator. The law forbidding it is universally valid: it obliges each and everyone, always and everywhere.

2262 In the Sermon on the Mount, the Lord recalls the commandment, "You shall not kill,"62 and adds to it the proscription of anger, hatred, and vengeance. Going further, Christ asks his disciples to turn the other cheek, to love their enemies.63 He did not defend himself and told Peter to leave his sword in its sheath.64

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
Code:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.66
2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

2266 The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people’s rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people’s safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.67

2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."68
 
Thanks for replying!

I have always found that (name removed by moderator)risoning them is very demoralising, but you have another mouth to feed. So we dont kill innocents. Thats a givin. And when defending yourself, you try NOT to kill the agressor. And if you defend yourself too well, you becom an assailent. So if Poland repeled the Germans, and further went on to capture Berlin, they would be frowned upon?

What about witches and homosexualls? We were called to kill them specifically in the past. I finsd it is because of our societies acceptive nature that they exist at all. Perhaps there would be no more queers had we eredicated them sufficientaly in the past. :confused:
 
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Clonereject1138:
Thanks for replying!

I have always found that (name removed by moderator)risoning them is very demoralising, but you have another mouth to feed. So we dont kill innocents. Thats a givin. And when defending yourself, you try NOT to kill the agressor. And if you defend yourself too well, you becom an assailent. So if Poland repeled the Germans, and further went on to capture Berlin, they would be frowned upon?

What about witches and homosexualls? We were called to kill them specifically in the past. I finsd it is because of our societies acceptive nature that they exist at all. Perhaps there would be no more queers had we eredicated them sufficientaly in the past. :confused:
No. If Poland went on to capture Berlin it would be to end the threat. They would not be considered the assailant.

Witches and homosexuals - when they are individual sins (rather than an attacking army) we are to love the sinner and hate the sin and not aid the sin.
 
Okay then. Might as well not kill any one then, eh? 😉

Now that God doesn’t talk to us through prophets, how do we know if he calls us to war or not? I suppose common sense wiould prevail, but what about the Jews and the holocaust? They, for the most part, turned the other cheek and were decimated. While others fought against the opressing Nazis. Are we supposed to always turn the other cheek against adversity? I dont have 539 (7X77) cheeks. Also, should we wait for a criminal to commit his crime 539 times before we enact justic upon him? Or, can we enact justice at all, as we are sinners, and are not called upon to judge?
 
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Clonereject1138:
Okay then. Might as well not kill any one then, eh? 😉

Now that God doesn’t talk to us through prophets, how do we know if he calls us to war or not? I suppose common sense wiould prevail, but what about the Jews and the holocaust? They, for the most part, turned the other cheek and were decimated. While others fought against the opressing Nazis. Are we supposed to always turn the other cheek against adversity? I dont have 539 (7X77) cheeks. Also, should we wait for a criminal to commit his crime 539 times before we enact justic upon him? Or, can we enact justice at all, as we are sinners, and are not called upon to judge?
We do not have any more prophets because Jesus fulfilled all prophecies.

He then left us the Catholic Church and the magesterium to guide us until He returns.

That’s how we know…follow the teachings of the Catholic Church. Begin here.
 
So when the time comes when we christians are persecuted for our beliefs, we are suppose to go with the flow and be systematically elimintated? 😃 Such a joy that God has deemed us worth to be persecuted in His name!
 
Hello clonereject,

Actually it was not Jesus but God through Moses who first gave the command to love our neighbor as ourselves. It was also God through Moses who gave us the commandment, “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. Once one understands how Moses loves God and neighbor, even when he kills, one gains a clearer understanding to Jesus’ teaching when Jesus repeats Moses law to love your neighbor as yourself.

Please visit Throwing Stones

**NAB LEV 19:17 **
"You shall not bear hatred for your brother in your heart. Though you may have to reprove your fellow man, do not incur sin because of him. Take no revenge and cherish no grudge against your fellow countrymen. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."
 
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Clonereject1138:
Such a joy that God has deemed us worth to be persecuted in His name!
Actually, yes.

Matthew 3:1-12
1(When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him. 2He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,

3"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4"Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

5"Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

6"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

7"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

8"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

9"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

10"Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
12"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."


I take it you have a problem with this???
 
Oh no! I just had a change of heart(though the seed of hate sits in my gut like a smoldering log, covered with mushrooms) :rolleyes:

Its true, and we should be thankful. But as God gave us tewardship of our live, we have the duty to protect life in all its forms.
 
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Clonereject1138:
Oh no! I just had a change of heart(though the seed of hate sits in my gut like a smoldering log, covered with mushrooms) :rolleyes:

Its true, and we should be thankful. But as God gave us tewardship of our live, we have the duty to protect life in all its forms.
Ummm…

Are you going to eat those mushrooms?

Alan
 
:ehh: No…

My point was, we humans are pure potential engergy. As to what we have no Idea. Look at an infant. Do you see the next Davinche?(sp?) The next George Wasington Carver? The next Regan? The next John Paul II? Hopefully, he will aspire to be like these fine 'gents. But like I said, we’re pure potential energy, and that means we can cause great harm as well. With every murder, history s shaken. Mabey this man wasn’t a Michalangelo, be his child, or his child’s child might have been. We humans cannot comprehend the tremendous tragedy of a human death, much less tens of thousands.

Did the Jews behave according to Gods will during the holocaust? Or, since it was their duty to protect life, did they sin throught their lack of action? As the saying goes “In what I have done, and in what I have failed to do” When faced with persecution, do we do as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and face persecution head on, or do we fight against opression in the protection of those we love(all God’s creations)?
 
Hi Clonereject 1138:

Humans are not potential energy. We are energy (as well as matter). We put out something like 1.5 volts just by existing.

As for the Holocaust, most Jews did not know that they would be killed. Therefore little organized resistance. Of course there was the Warsaw ghetto uprising. But systematic resistance against the Nazis was rare. Also in most of Europe, non-Jewish neighbors eagerly turned in Jews. Hard to fight when Nazis attack you in the front and neighbors stab u in the back.

" Perhaps there would be no more queers had we eredicated them sufficientaly in the past."

People tried, Clonereject 1138, lord they tried. But we’re still here. Something to contemplate…
 
Yup. “If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again”

So, if we knew, as we do, that opression and death were(are) coming, would we fight for the protection of life?
 
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Clonereject1138:
Yup. “If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again”

So, if we knew, as we do, that opression and death were(are) coming, would we fight for the protection of life?
I think we’re supposed to fight for truth, justice, and the American way.

No wait, that’s Superman…
 
Love thy neighbor! Two wrongs do not make a right!! Do not judge others we will all be judged in the end.
 
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