So your whole you've been successful,worked hard but become a stay at home parent `_`

[sidetrack]

It may presumably be seen as unlikely a thing to happen nowadays in first world countries where ideally everyone shares balanced parental roles and duties while being a dual career couple but I still say it may be fairly likely.I’m pretty cynical to my cohort of early 90’s Gen Y/Millennials :ehh: .

It might start innocously enough when one parent get dismissed from work,has trouble finding work and starts staying at home to the point that they ultimately are more conformed to doing that for example… which at some point makes me think that,that person will think that like over 2 decades of accumulated work,skills and schooling will really be brought up for question ~ .You become a stay at home parent.Your continuing a role that parents for centuries have done instead of doing the “modern” thing of being able to hold a respectable and maybe intellectually challenging job,domestic duties and being attentive with parenting.

I have a feeling that from now on when this happens particulary to guys :ehh:…as much as ppl will sympathize with them I have a feeling that a substantial amount will make fun of guys who do that for not filling the socially prescribed role of guys as the primary “breadwinner”.I could imagine that for those who (for whatever reason) never learned domestic skills when they were little boys b/c they parents *coddled them like “little princes” b/c of a “men dont chores” mentality or whatever,this might be a rough role reversal for them.

Anyone else feels that there whole personal life purpose a/o destiny would get sort of messed over to some extent if that were to happen in this day and age to someone in mid 20’s demographic?.Anyone thinks that when it happens to guys the impact is significantly different ?.

*Unfortuntely this is sorta the scenerio with me which makes me think that I’m HEAVILY lacking as “marriage material” and I’m very much afraid that this will happen to me fully if I ever do marry :imsorry: .

 

[aemcpa]

Do you think that being a stay at home parent represents a failure?

 

[sidetrack]

Do you think that being a stay at home parent represents a failure?

No…but darn it!,we are told so often to be highly attentive and accomplished parents and fill in for a dozen other positions as well! .

 

[EasterJoy]

The first thing to do if you become a parent is to learn to let what you are “told so often” to slide off of your back. You need to live according to your convictions and what you discern your children need and what you find that you are capable of doing. Search for the will of God and do it, ask mercy for where you fail, then get up and do what you can some more. That’s enough. You don’t have room in that load on your back for what all the other know-it-all in the world are telling you. Trying to appease public opinion is like letting the devil have you by the nose; it is a terrible way to live. Since Heaven doesn’t command it, don’t expect Heaven to be there to help you pull it off, either.

 

[JRKH]

Sidetrack…
I noted something in your post that I thought worth addressing…You said…
You become a stay at home parent.Your continuing a role that parents for centuries have done instead of doing the “modern” thing of being able to hold a respectable and maybe intellectually challenging job,domestic duties and being attentive with parenting.
(Bolding mine)
Actually this is not the case. for most of history BOTH parents would work - and the kids as well…usually on a farm…but even in the industrial age. In the U.S. it was right at the turn of the 19th century (barely a hundred years ago) that child labor laws and labor unions took hold to the extent that, by about 1940 men could earn a decent enough wage that the woman could stay at home…before that - everybody worked at whatever they could get just to try to earn a living wage.
Then of course WW II took the men out of the factories and the women went back in…
The 1950’s - 60’s were perhaps the hay day of the cultural structure you envision of the man working and the woman staying at home.

But all of that said…I really don’t think that what you fear will occur. At least not to any great degree. Most people realize that their friends and neighbors are doing the same thing they themselves are doing…trying to keep afloat and stay ahead.

Peace
James

 

[Em_in_FL]

It may presumably be seen as unlikely a thing to happen nowadays in first world countries where ideally everyone shares balanced parental roles and duties while being a dual career couple but I still say it may be fairly likely.I’m pretty cynical to my cohort of early 90’s Gen Y/Millennials :ehh: .

It might start innocously enough when one parent get dismissed from work,has trouble finding work and starts staying at home to the point that they ultimately are more conformed to doing that for example… which at some point makes me think that,that person will think that like over 2 decades of accumulated work,skills and schooling will really be brought up for question ~ .You become a stay at home parent.Your continuing a role that parents for centuries have done instead of doing the “modern” thing of being able to hold a respectable and maybe intellectually challenging job,domestic duties and being attentive with parenting.

I have a feeling that from now on when this happens particulary to guys :ehh:…as much as ppl will sympathize with them I have a feeling that a substantial amount will make fun of guys who do that for not filling the socially prescribed role of guys as the primary “breadwinner”.I could imagine that for those who (for whatever reason) never learned domestic skills when they were little boys b/c they parents *coddled them like “little princes” b/c of a “men dont chores” mentality or whatever,this might be a rough role reversal for them.

Anyone else feels that there whole personal life purpose a/o destiny would get sort of messed over to some extent if that were to happen in this day and age to someone in mid 20’s demographic?.Anyone thinks that when it happens to guys the impact is significantly different ?.

*Unfortuntely this is sorta the scenerio with me which makes me think that I’m HEAVILY lacking as “marriage material” and I’m very much afraid that this will happen to me fully if I ever do marry :imsorry: .

Kinda sounds like my life.
But I don’t think you are being very creative in your outlook.

We’ve always been a 2-working-parent family, until my husband was laid off… and the industry (space and missile defense) has practically crumbled under the current administration - what to do!?!
There are lots of options!
You can go find work in another similar industry, which may require major life changes like a move, neither of which was acceptable to us: (similar industries being weapon systems designs, which ends up being spiritually challenging to do from a moral standpoint and a move was not going to happen.)
We chose to look into new careers altogether! Work from HOME! Start your own business! Take personal ownership of your life instead of working for a corporation!

All of these things are possible. You need to get more creative in your thoughts.

 

[Kal2012]

I’ve found that people in our generations (Gen X/Gen Y) tend to be more open to alternative family arrangements. Although it is still unusual for men to be the primary stay at home parent, it’s not unheard of either.

People do what works for them and their family and, even the best laid plans are fluid.

(People lose jobs, get sick, go back to school…etc)

Eventually, you just get to a point where you don’t care what the rest of society thinks and you do what you need to do for your family.

I mean, wasn’t one of the goals of feminism for men and women to be equal and have the same opportunities. So, I have to ask why is it a bad thing for a guy to want to be a stay at home parent? Sometimes I think my husband is way more gifted when it comes to parenting than I am.

It’s just closed-minded to assume that everyone family is going to work same way and stay the same way. I know dads who work in an office. I know dads who work from home. I know dads who depend on their wives to bring in the income because the women make better money than the dads did when they were working. There’s not just one way to work or parent kids.

 

[shainski]

Part of growing up is learning not to take too personally what you think about others’ opinions of you.

You and your wife will decide on the best arrangement for raising your family. Sure - take others’ opinions into account - but don’t let them rule you.

If, it so happens that your wife makes more money, she has better hours, or you are the better stay-at-home parent for a certain portion of your childrens’ lives - then why worry about what you believe that your neighbor thinks? If your friends tease you - just laugh along.

No matter what course you take - some will disagree with you. No matter what you believe - some will tease you about it.

Even if you believe that modern society has everyone conforming to the same model - could you not question whether that model is a good one. After all - some day people will be looking back out our society and something more modern will have replaced it. What will those people think?

 

[erine]

It may presumably be seen as unlikely a thing to happen nowadays in first world countries where ideally everyone shares balanced parental roles and duties while being a dual career couple but I still say it may be fairly likely.I’m pretty cynical to my cohort of early 90’s Gen Y/Millennials :ehh: .

It might start innocously enough when one parent get dismissed from work,has trouble finding work and starts staying at home to the point that they ultimately are more conformed to doing that for example… which at some point makes me think that,that person will think that like over 2 decades of accumulated work,skills and schooling will really be brought up for question ~ .You become a stay at home parent.Your continuing a role that parents for centuries have done instead of doing the “modern” thing of being able to hold a respectable and maybe intellectually challenging job,domestic duties and being attentive with parenting.

I have a feeling that from now on when this happens particulary to guys :ehh:…as much as ppl will sympathize with them I have a feeling that a substantial amount will make fun of guys who do that for not filling the socially prescribed role of guys as the primary “breadwinner”.I could imagine that for those who (for whatever reason) never learned domestic skills when they were little boys b/c they parents *coddled them like “little princes” b/c of a “men dont chores” mentality or whatever,this might be a rough role reversal for them.

Anyone else feels that there whole personal life purpose a/o destiny would get sort of messed over to some extent if that were to happen in this day and age to someone in mid 20’s demographic?.Anyone thinks that when it happens to guys the impact is significantly different ?.

*Unfortuntely this is sorta the scenerio with me which makes me think that I’m HEAVILY lacking as “marriage material” and I’m very much afraid that this will happen to me fully if I ever do marry :imsorry: .

I know a couple that lives with the husband’s parents. He is unemployed. They are happy together and laugh a lot. I told them I respect them more than a lot of new married couples because they did what they are supposed to do which is get married and build their lives together, as opposed to these days where everyone thinks they need a full blown career, home ownership, and two cars before they are “ready.”. My understanding is that no one is ever “ready,” and my understanding is also that statistically men who are single have less motivation to earn a lot and therefore often even men without established career suddenly find more motivation when they become aware that w wife and children need their support. This is usually a higher motivating factor than just feeding themselves.

Hmm so I sort of like someone who doesn’t have a totally glamorous career. But I’ve ha men pursue me that had a fancy career but I didn’t have that same affection and spark and Im not unwise enough to marry for money. I also herd of a couple that the man left seminary for her, they were broke, and decided to just rely on God’s providence. And they were taken care of and had ten kids. I think marriage material is less to do with now fancy your career is. Because plenty of men have that who are not marriage material. But about, do you want to lay down your life for one woman and your children for the rest of your life?

Also I have learned that while I like traditional roles, the love and commitment come first and don’t change based on money, career, etc.

If yes and if God calls, He will provide.

 

[manualman]

I realize that saying so out loud marks me as a boorish Neanderthal, but it seems to me that we’re fighting nature in this era of androgynous parenting. Does it REALLY make a lot of sense for dad to stay home with little ones when it is the mom who gets morning sickness, carries the bowling ball on the front side of her hips for months and nurses the infants when hungry (extended out through multiple kids)? Or perhaps fighting that nature is why modern societies have too few children to even replace themselves over the long run.

I often hear the assertion that the 50’s were an aberration and that today’s “working parents” is a return to the norm. It’s nonsense. The evidence stares you in the face in constant news about school closings, declines in fertility, aging populations, etc. We’re committing cultural suicide by pretending that male and female are the same thing. Sure women have always WORKED and contributed to the family economics. It’s just that in earlier eras society recognized that motherhood was as important during the day as it is in the evening. Family farms had kids working and learning beside both parents. Same in earlier family businesses. But as the world got more corporatized and more people became employees than business owners, things got messier.

I’m not intending to criticize women or say they shouldn’t work. Heck, there’s not much choice in many cases these days at the level of individuals. But I am saying that our society is ignoring the long term effects of pretending that women and men are identical when it comes to work outlook and family roles. It’s downright obvious that we’re not the same, but we pretend so anyways. As a society, we haven’t yet found a way to give economic and career opportunities to women within the framework of a culture that can sustain itself indefinitely over the generations. Worse, most people won’t even admit there is a problem, which means there is little to no chance of solving it. We’ll go on having sub-replacement levels of kids until the problem is solved by our culture disappearing and another taking over. Big family catholics may yet get the last laugh!

Personally, I think the problem is the same root problem as it was in the pre-feminist 50’s, only it’s gotten worse. Back then it was just misogynist men who considered raising children and taking charge of the health and welfare of the home to be an inferior and menial role. Today it is both misogynist men AND feminists who hold that position. I think the solution has to include finding a way to more properly honor and reward the contributions and sacrifices of moms.

 

[EasterJoy]

I realize that saying so out loud marks me as a boorish Neanderthal, but it seems to me that we’re fighting nature in this era of androgynous parenting. Does it REALLY make a lot of sense for dad to stay home with little ones when it is the mom who gets morning sickness, carries the bowling ball on the front side of her hips for months and nurses the infants when hungry (extended out through multiple kids)?..

I don’t think anyone is advocating in favor of androgynous parenting. A dad who stays at home because his wife is the one who can get a job does not become a mother. He’s still the dad. The parents know it and more to the point, the kids know it. If you had to choose just one, yes, I’d generally say it works best to leave the younger kids with their mother and the older ones with their father, or better yet have a situation where both parents have contact with their children over the course of their working day. The thing is, though, that isn’t always possible. When it isn’t, the family doesn’t need any guff from anybody else.

No matter what the age or what the fashion in parenting has been, the truth is that any method usually works the best if other people have the self-control to mind their own business. Yet this is rarely the case until the principle of respecting the privacy of others is taken so far that people are willing to tolerate actual abuse without stepping in.

 

[shainski]

I recognize that there are differences between men and women - not just physically, but in the our psychological makeup.

However, given that most women are better suited to taking care of young children - it is not true that all women are better than all men. Some men have more patience, more interest, and get more satisfaction out of being at home with their children. And some women have less patience for childrearing - or are just better suited to the workplace than their husbands for whatever reason.

Let’s say that in 1 out of 10 marriages (I’m just making up that number, but it could be 1 of 4 or 1 of 100). Does it not make sense in those families that the roles are reversed?

Is not the whole point of this modern family that you mention - that the couple can decide for themselves what model best suits them? Even if 90% of households go back to a traditional model because it suits them better (or they would if they could afford it). There are some households which would be nontraditional even if they could afford the traditional model.

 

[manualman]

I don’t think anyone is advocating in favor of androgynous parenting.

The rest of your post I’m fine with. This first line isn’t true. In my experience, it is a very widely held belief in younger people today that parents are interchangeable units. In fact, this condition is almost a prerequisite for society-wide acceptance of “gay marriage.” How else can one argue that two dads are as good as a mom and dad? That’s what legal recognition of gay relationships as marriage does (in its legal implications for adoption policy, for example).

I also think it appears in the OP’s description of what society’s expectations are these days. It’s more pervasive than you seem to think.

 

[on_the_hill]

Actually this is not the case. for most of history BOTH parents would work - and the kids as well…usually on a farm…but even in the industrial age.

As a matter of fact, in the 1890s my grandfather and his siblings had a nanny because both of his parents worked in the family’s grocery store. They lived above the store but his mother didn’t have time to run the business with his dad and also take care of the 8 children.

At present, I’ve come across a couple stay-at-home dads, one of whom is a friend of mine. It’s what he wants to do, and his wife’s job and her family money make it possible for them to live a comfortable life with one parent working for pay. He’s also very much involved in charity work.

 

[on_the_hill]

T In my experience, it is a very widely held belief in younger people today that parents are interchangeable units.

Really? How many of these folks have children? Because in my experience, it is pretty hard to maintain your beliefs about family life once the kiddies come along.

One other thing: People always look at it from one side of the equation. The parents. The parents’ attitudes, beliefs, etc. What about the children? WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN? They have their own attitudes and beliefs, probably hardwired into them by eons of Intelligent Design innovations. Little guy is going to naturally, biologically, inherently, instinctively cling to Momma regardless of what Momma wants.

 

[manualman]

Really? How many of these folks have children? Because in my experience, it is pretty hard to maintain your beliefs about family life once the kiddies come along.

(Clarification to the bold above: these aren’t MY beliefs…)

Many don’t have kids yet. Some never will. Some have their one child and forget after a few years. The average European or third generation or later American these days has 1.5 kids in a lifetime. That’s pretty scary long term.

It’s actually possible to take a several week maternity sabbatical, use bottle formula, drop the baby off at Kinder Care and get back to your career track with little interruption. Some have no choice but to do that. If you’re only having one kid, one can do that and still convince yourself that it’s normal. If we define “normal” as “common” it actually IS normal in a lot of circles these days.

But it’s not a coincidence that it’s happening simultaneously with a precipitous drop in our culture’s rate of childbearing. We don’t even have enough kids to replace ourselves anymore. Long term, that WILL catch up with us.

 

[on_the_hill]

(Clarification to the bold above: these aren’t MY beliefs…)

I was speaking of the generic second person. Believe it or not, I almost typed, '…t is pretty hard to maintain one’s beliefs…’

 

[EasterJoy]

The rest of your post I’m fine with. This first line isn’t true. In my experience, it is a very widely held belief in younger people today that parents are interchangeable units. In fact, this condition is almost a prerequisite for society-wide acceptance of “gay marriage.” How else can one argue that two dads are as good as a mom and dad? That’s what legal recognition of gay relationships as marriage does (in its legal implications for adoption policy, for example).

I also think it appears in the OP’s description of what society’s expectations are these days. It’s more pervasive than you seem to think.

Oh, do not get me wrong. You are 100% right: if this obvious falsehood weren’t a widely-held belief, we wouldn’t have so many people who thought homosexual marriage is the same as heterosexual marriage. I mean that it is not likely that anyone is going to try to get that lead pig to fly on this forum!’

No, when people on this forum talk about Dad staying at home with the children, whether it is for two hours or two years or however long it is, they know it is Dad, and not Mom, that is all I mean.

 

[EasterJoy]

I recognize that there are differences between men and women - not just physically, but in the our psychological makeup.

However, given that most women are better suited to taking care of young children - it is not true that all women are better than all men. Some men have more patience, more interest, and get more satisfaction out of being at home with their children. And some women have less patience for childrearing - or are just better suited to the workplace than their husbands for whatever reason.

Let’s say that in 1 out of 10 marriages (I’m just making up that number, but it could be 1 of 4 or 1 of 100). Does it not make sense in those families that the roles are reversed?

Is not the whole point of this modern family that you mention - that the couple can decide for themselves what model best suits them? Even if 90% of households go back to a traditional model because it suits them better (or they would if they could afford it). There are some households which would be nontraditional even if they could afford the traditional model.

This is what I mean. There are exceptions that merely prove the rule, but means they are legitimate exceptions. Sometimes the children will be the first to tell you that Mom’s parenting skills go downhill after a certain number of hours spent doing it in a week. I am not a believer of “oh, I don’t do this thing that is usually a duty, because it doesn’t suit me.” People use that to get themselves out of going to weddings, going to funerals, going to visit people in the hospital, and so on, and rarely is it really a matter of “I can’t.” Usually (although not always, by any means) it is a matter of “I really don’t like to, and I imagine that this makes some difference when it comes to a duty.”

Still, if a family finds that the parenting is better or that for some other reason their family will do the best if Mom is the one toiling away at paid employment while Dad toils away with the domestic duties, that’s up to their discernment. The general pattern is there to help people keep from trying to re-invent the wheel, not to force people into carriages when a sleigh is what the driving conditions call for. The parents need to follow St. Paul’s call to “do nothing out of selfishness or out of vainglory; rather, humbly regard others as more important than yourselves, each looking out not for his own interests, but (also) everyone for those of others” (Phil 2:3-4), so self-fulfillment ought not to be anyone’s number one priority, but that does not mean it is totally unimportant to consider what work fits each member of the family best. The old saw “if Mama ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy” definitely has some truth to it, and it applies to Papa, too.

Also consider that taking paid employment can be, for the husband, choosing to do something out of vainglory. It is not right for either spouse to choose to appease what other people will think or to look for the approval of others at the expense of what is best for their families. So if the best thing for your family is obviously for Dad to stay home, it isn’t right for Dad to take paid employment, instead, out of fear of what kind of bad feedback will have to be borne from family, friends, and neighbors. Take care of family first and serve God first, and let the busybodies who don’t like that go jump in a lake.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I think it’s obvious to us (as Catholics) that there are psychological and spiritual differences between a man and a woman as husband and wife and as mother and father…

But the notion that the *nature of work *should be wrapped up in that is unnecessary.
Many families will fall into the “traditional” situation because it works well… some will not because it doesn’t work for them. That doesn’t change the unique persons of “mother” and “father”, nor should it be used as an excuse to not be good stewards with the marital gift of our fertility.
I know many working mothers with 4+ children… families do what they have to do to make things work!