Socialism and Christianity

  • Thread starter Thread starter Qoeleth
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Catholic Church does plenty and needs Its wealth to continue doing plenty …
there are single individuals with more financial wealth than the Catholic Church.
The Vatican is decorated with priceless, one of a kind works of Renaissance art.

In fact, most Catholic churches I’ve seen have stain glass windows and sculptures: think of all the good they could do if they sold that stuff.

But you made my point: In the Socialist world the rules are only for the little people. The guys at the top always excuse themselves.

Socialist/Marxist/Communist leaders are always so free wheeling with everyone else’s money and property and so stingy with their own.
 
The above shows abysmal ignorance of the fact that the reason poverty in the world was ameliorated was due to the application of the teaching of Jesus through His Catholic Church which enabled the raised living standards of untold millions.
#1 - I think there is still poverty in the world.

#2 - Jesus and his church have very little to do with raising anyone’s living standards.
What did Jesus really teach?
In His constant praising of human work, Jesus gives examples of merchants in parables:
“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up, then in his joy he goes out and sells all that he has and buys the field.”

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it.”
[Matt 13:44-46, where the actions of merchants are valued and appreciated].

The message of the parable “hinges on two things. The goodness of the work of merchants in and of itself is the first of these. Christ affirms the work of merchants. Why would He have used the example if He did not? Second, the parable depends on the recognition of this goodness by those who hear the parable. His audience must have had some knowledge of what constitutes the work of a merchant and have had an experience of the goodness of this work. Without these two realities the truth of the parable remains ineffectual.”
Entrepreneurship in the Catholic Tradition, Fr Anthony G Percy, Connor Court Publishing, 2011, p 45-6].
I caution against taking Jesus’s stories at face value.
Often one needs to look for the deeper meanings in his parables to get at the real teaching.
The reality is: Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Put another way – easy come, easy go. Anyone who thinks that curtailing self-reliance is good is not facing reality.

It is time to face reality. As St Paul confirms: “If any one will not work, let him not eat” (2 Thess 3:10).

Dr Chafuen notes that “many people close to Jesus were quite wealthy for their times. Joseph seems to have had his own business and perhaps a donkey; Peter owned a fishing boat, and Matthew was a tax collector. Jesus praised the rich man Zaccheus. It was the wealthy Joseph of Arimathea who kept faith even when the Apostles were beset by doubt (Mt 27:57). Jesus does not condemn the possession of riches but, rather disordered attachment to them.” Notice also that Jesus did not ask His Apostles to renounce their property. Christians For Freedom, Dr Alejandro Chafuen, Ignatius, 1986, p 45]
…I think you’re missing Jesus’s deeper meanings, just as you missed my deeper point.

Go read all of my posts please.
 
The Vatican is decorated with priceless, one of a kind works of Renaissance art.

In fact, most Catholic churches I’ve seen have stain glass windows and sculptures: think of all the good they could do if they sold that stuff.

But you made my point: In the Socialist world the rules are only for the little people. The guys at the top always excuse themselves.

Socialist/Marxist/Communist leaders are always so free wheeling with everyone else’s money and property and so stingy with their own.
If you knew anything about world economy you would realize that money doesn’t hold its value whereas Renaissance art, stained glass windows, sculptures, gold cups, stone cathedrals and real estate do;
So that if the day does ever come that the Catholic Church has to liquidate its assets in order to meet its indebtedness, they would hopefully get enough money from selling their assets to do so.

PS:

Did you ever hear of Catholic Charities or of Saint Jude Children’s Hospitals?
Children are cured of cancer free of charge. :signofcross:
:knight1:

rex
 
If you knew anything about world economy you would realize that money doesn’t hold its value whereas Renaissance art, stained glass windows, sculptures, gold cups, stone cathedrals and real estate do;
So that if the day does ever come that the Catholic Church has to liquidate its assets in order to meet its indebtedness, they would hopefully get enough money from selling their assets to do so.

PS:

Did you ever hear of Catholic Charities or of Saint Jude Children’s Hospitals?
Children are cured of cancer free of charge. :signofcross:
:knight1:

rex
…did you read all of my posts?
 
Tzimisce #100
#1 - I think there is still poverty in the world.
Free enterprise is precisely what has enabled untold millions to escape from poverty. Without the great contribution of the Industrial Revolution, sparked by Catholic economic and social thought and action in the West, we would still be eking out an existence as before that development. Catholic teaching, especially social teaching outlines the morality of this interaction. It is the economic approach that has revolutionised the standard of living of billions.

See: povertycure.org/voices/george-ayittey/
George Ayittey, an African entrepreneur, met Bono in 2007 and gave the rock star a copy of his book, Africa Unchained: The Blueprint For Development. Some of it must have taken hold, as Bono has come to acknowledge that foreign aid is merely a “stopgap” for poverty, not a realistic solution.
See: blog.acton.org/archives/58688-bono-affirms-that-capitalism-alleviates-poverty-more-than-aid.html
See: blog.independent.org/2013/08/12/bono-capitalism-takes-more-people-out-of-poverty-than-aid/

Do Christians Love Poverty?
August 16, 2013
Insisting that the only thing the poor need is bread consigns them to a world without signs of transcendence.
James V. Schall, S.J
.
Extract:
‘Much of world poverty has in fact been reduced or alleviated, as a recent essay in *The Economist *has shown. Christians often seem not to know that this change has happened or why it happened.’

Further, between 1990 and 2010, their number fell by half as a share of the total population in developing countries, from 43% to 21%—a reduction of almost 1 billion people.
tinyurl.com/ldjt6go
#2 - Jesus and his church have very little to do with raising anyone’s living standards.
I caution against taking Jesus’s stories at face value.
Often one needs to look for the deeper meanings in his parables to get at the real teaching.
As a self-described “pagan” how would you ever know the real meaning of the parables? Listen and learn from Fr Percy.
The facts are given on the germination of free enterprise in the monasteries in posts #68, 57, 39, and 22.

In the parable of the talents, Jesus lauds the servant who has multiplied talents – “For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Mt 25: 14-30). Christ certainly praised the wise use of the fundamental right of economic initiative and prudence in this parable.
  1. “There is the emphasis on the ‘talent’, which is a measure of value.
  2. “The trading activity of the two stewards is important. Christ praises them for the energy, alertness, and perseverance they demonstrate in making a truly significant profit (they have doubled the original sum). There is a reference to accountability which is crucial to any business.
  3. “Then the nuanced criticism of fear: ‘I was afraid, and I went off and hid your talent in the ground.’ This fear leads the lazy steward to avoid the risks and obstacles that are a key part of entrepreneurial work.
  4. “There is the clear reference to the financial system. The lazy steward at least could have placed the ‘money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest.’ ”
“We can this affirm unambiguously that Jesus Christ ‘looks with love on upon human work’ and that the work of the merchant – the businessman or the entrepreneur – is one of the ‘different forms’ of work that is affirmed. The parable of the talents makes this clear by its reference to money, trading, risk taking and banking.”
Entrepreneurship in the Catholic Tradition, Fr Anthony G Percy, Lexington Books, 2010, p 48-49].

Free enterprise and entrepreneurship have been lauded first by Christ in the Parables of the Dishonest Steward and The Talents, and by the Fathers of the Church, and by Popes in Centesimus Annus and Caritas in Veritate.
 
Free enterprise is precisely what has enabled untold millions to escape from poverty. Without the great contribution of the Industrial Revolution, sparked by Catholic economic and social thought and action in the West, we would still be eking out an existence as before that development. Catholic teaching, especially social teaching outlines the morality of this interaction. It is the economic approach that has revolutionised the standard of living of billions.
If you had read my whole post, you’d see I wasn’t disagreeing with you.
As a self-described “pagan” how would you ever know the real meaning of the parables?
Oh yeah, what on Earth do stupid, backwards pagans know?

…except most of your religion comes from pagan practices.

Oh yes it does.

Pride and anger are sins which I’m guessing is what your reaction is when you read the above. Consider that carefully before you respond.

I repeat: if you had read all of my posts, you’d see I was agreeing with you.
 
So who I am is more important than the point I’m making?

Okay.
As a matter of fact I did see a post of yours after I made my first post in this thread that agrees with the tenth commandment, but I addressed a post of yours that seemed to me to have been an unjustified attack on the Catholic Church;
Otherwise this topic doesn’t interest me because I know that the Catholic Church is probably the most charitable organization in the world.

There was a movie recently: “The Shoes of the Fisherman” that I wondered if it may have possibly given you your idea that the Catholic Church should shed its wealth for the poor, but you apparently don’t realize the enormity of the Catholic Church with its expenses …
Yes the Church gets some financial assistance here and there I guess, but it still costs a great deal of money to keep the Catholic Church functioning to reach out to people all over the world to help them and to bring them into its fold.

Anyway, as far as I’m concerned no point of yours could justify your imho desire for the Roman Catholic Church to prostrate itself leaving itself with no reserve resources which could one day cause its total collapse;
And concerning who you are, no offense intended, but I do try to always consider the source.

:knight1: rex
 
As a matter of fact I did see a post of yours after I made my first post in this thread that agrees with the tenth commandment, but I addressed a post of yours that seemed to me to have been an unjustified attack on the Catholic Church;
Otherwise this topic doesn’t interest me because I know that the Catholic Church is probably the most charitable organization in the world.

There was a movie recently: “The Shoes of the Fisherman” that I wondered if it may have possibly given you your idea that the Catholic Church should shed its wealth for the poor, but you apparently don’t realize the enormity of the Catholic Church with its expenses …
Yes the Church gets some financial assistance here and there I guess, but it still costs a great deal of money to keep the Catholic Church functioning to reach out to people all over the world to help them and to bring them into its fold.

Anyway, as far as I’m concerned no point of yours could justify your imho desire for the Roman Catholic Church to prostrate itself leaving itself with no reserve resources which could one day cause its total collapse;
And concerning who you are, no offense intended, but I do try to always consider the source.
I love pride. It blinds one to their own arrogance and conceit.

Vanity, definitely my favorite sin. -John Milton (the Devil), Devil’s Advocate
And concerning who you are, no offense intended, but I do try to always consider the source.
Who cares what Jesus said? He wasn’t a Christian.
 
Oh yeah, what on Earth do stupid, backwards pagans know?

…except most of your religion comes from pagan practices.

Oh yes it does.
No, it doesn’t. You’re reasoning is fallacious, confusing similarities with descent.

If Christianity “came from” paganism there would be real identity between pagan beliefs and Christian beliefs, there’s not.

Christianity assumed the cultural aspects that resulted from pagan beliefs while at the same time negated and rejected the false gods that paganism spawned.

So your assertion is a non-sequitur.
 
I love pride. It blinds one to their own arrogance and conceit.

Vanity, definitely my favorite sin. -John Milton (the Devil), Devil’s Advocate
Oh, how one can wind up testifying against themselves…
Who cares what Jesus said? He wasn’t a Christian.
Distinction without a difference. That He wasn’t a “Christian” is irrelevant, He was the Source of Christianity; He was/is Christ.
 
The Vatican is decorated with priceless, one of a kind works of Renaissance art.
In fact, most Catholic churches I’ve seen have stain glass windows and sculptures: think of all the good they could do if they sold that stuff.

The Catholic clergy doesn’t have the right to sell things which they do not own.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top