Sola Fide help please?

[Blake002]

Sola Fide?

Okay, I am having what we will just call a “discusion” with a friend of mine who says he goes to a non-denominatioal church and they go only by the Bible, and take the Bible word for word. I brought up sola Fide, that it is not scriptual. I am looking for a little help with my points, below I have listed what I sent to him and what he sent to me.

After talking briefly about Sola Fide he sends this to me:

Romans 3:10-12
“As the Scriptures say, ‘No one is good- not even one. No one has real
understanding; no one is seeking God; all have gone wrong. No one does good,
not even one.’”

Pope or Mary is good, because if you believe that, you believe the Bible is 
lying...

Romans 3:20
"For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what His law 
commands. For the more we know God's Law, the clearer it becomes that we 
aren't obeying it."

~~~No one can EVER be made right in God's sight by following the 
Law...hmmmm....so how can we be made right?

Romans 3:21-22
"BUT NOW GOD HAS SHOWN US A DIFFERENT WAY OF BEING RIGHT IN HIS SIGHT- NOT 
BY OBEYING THE LAW BUT NY THE WAY HE PROMISED IN THE SCRIPTURES LONG AGO. 

(this is very important, so pay attention) WE ARE MADE RIGHT IN GOD'S 
SIGHT WHEN WE TRUST IN JESUS CHRIST TO TAKE AWAY OUR SINS. AND WE CAN ALL BE 
SAVED IN THIS SAME WAY, NO MATTER WHO WE ARE OR WHAT WE HAVE DONE."

~~~that, my friend, is faith and faith alone...and he emphasizes...

Romans 3:27-28
"Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, 
because our acqittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our 
FAITH. So we are made right with God through FAITH and not by obeying the 
law."

It is through FAITH and FAITH alone that we are saved, and good works come 
from salvation, they do not earn it and that CERTAINLY do not maintain it. 
If you believe you can do ANYTHING to earn or maintain salvation then you do 
not believe Christ took all your sins away and therefore do not believe in 
the true Christ, it's that simple.
 
Ephesians 2:8-10
"God saved you by His special favor when you believed. And you can't take 
credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward dor the 
good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's 
masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so that we can do the 
good things he planned for us long ago."

So Paul makes it very clear, that we are saved by the grace of God and our 
faith, so that we can do good, works have nothing to do whatsoever with 
obtaining salvation.

You can read these for yourself:

PHILIPPIANS 3:9
ROMANS 5:20

I've found tons more, in the New Testament alone, and I know of many more in 
the Psalms and other books of the Old Testament as well, but it is 
clear...faith alone saves.

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*** Then I sent the following to him:

Jas 2:14-26... what good is faith without works?
Jas 5:20... earning forgiveness
Heb 10:26... 
Luke 6:46; MT 7:21; MT 19:16-21 ... MUST do will of God
1 Cor 9:27... 
Phil 2:12; 2 Cor 5:10; Rom 2:6-10, 13, 3:31; MT 25:32-46; Gal 6:6-10... WORKS HAVE MERIT!
1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 5:3... keep commandments
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*** After about 5 hours, I am guessing he was shocked I had a good argument as well as he had a hard time finding something to come back at me with, he then sent me one thing. 
 
He sent "John 3:15, end of discussion"
 
 
So, any help would gladly be appreciated :) Thanks

 

[Catholic_Dude]

if thats all he could come back at you with then he must have been desparate to have the last word. It would never be that simple. He really didnt justify what you said, for example “faith without works”, unless you didnt go into details.

 

[Thal59]

First of all, you would do better to ask one question at a time. I’ll give you a little help and then a warning.
Romans 3:10-12
“As the Scriptures say, ‘No one is good- not even one. No one has real
understanding; no one is seeking God; all have gone wrong. No one does good,
not even one.’”

Pope or Mary is good, because if you believe that, you believe the Bible is lying...<<
 
The quote above was first rendered by David in one of his Psalms. It is a referrence to those in David's time who did not seek after God at all. Protestants of course take everything out of context and try to apply that to everyone in Paul's time as well as us today! Yet compare that with the description of Zachary and Elizabeth in Luke who were "righteous" before the Lord, etc.
 
>>
Romans 3:20
"For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what His law 
commands. For the more we know God's Law, the clearer it becomes that we 
aren't obeying it."
 
~~~No one can EVER be made right in God's sight by following the Law...hmmmm....so how can we be made right? <<
 
The "Law" Paul speaks of is the Jewish laws which also include the old sacrifices and covenents that were fulfilled by the Lord and no longer binding in their original form.
 
Now for the warning... Protestants "fight" the notion of the necessity of charity or "good works" in one's life because that constitutes suffering and sacrificing for others. Suffering and sacrificing is what love is all about. You know Jesus loves you because He suffered His passion and sacrificed Himself on the cross for you. 
 
But Protestants "love" their salvation and eternal reward more than they love (suffer and sacrifice) for Jesus or for others. This is why Protestantism is scrubbed clean of anything remotely attached to suffering and sacrificing. (No confession to a priest... that would be an inconvenience, no purgatory... that would mean suffering, no mandatory charity... that would mean sacrificing for others... etc.)
 
So the nature of the warning is this... the person whom you are dealing with "wants" to believe *sola fide* because his love is highly imperfect. 
 
And, you can't make an unloving person loving by merely quoting scriptures. He needs the grace and influence of the Holy Spirit. You would do better to pray for him, rather than debate him.
 
Thal59

 

[Blake002]

Thal59:

He needs the grace and influence of the Holy Spirit. You would do better to pray for him, rather than debate him.

Thal59

Every time I go to church I pray for him, as well as pray for God to work through me, and to give me the strength and wisdom to help him find the truth.

I know from about 3 years ago until last year he was going to different churches, he said he did go to a Catholic church for a while.

But when I ask him to read two books, “Rome Sweet Home” and “The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism” by Father Louis Bouyer, he says no that it will be a waste of his time, LOL.

He is big on Revelations as well. Then on the topic about Mary the ONLY thing he can find is when Elizabeth says something like “Blessed are you” to Mary and he states where Jesus corrects Elizabeth basically he says Jesus said don’t exalt her. But I am going at this one topic at a time.

I will say this, I have been a lifelong Catholic, but just recently, partly because of my friend questioning my beliefs, I have been looking in the Bible almost daily, as well as going to church every week now. Well, Ive been going more than once a week, Easter week I went on Holy Thursday, then on Friday, then on Saturday, then two times on Sunday as I wanted to go to the Basilica as well as that Mass was in Latin. So I do give him credit on getting me back often as well as getting me to read the Bible, and it’s showing me that my Catholic beliefs are correct.

 

[adstrinity]

First, I didn’t even read all of that, but, the first few didn’t even LOOK to support Sola Scriptura.

Second, Okay, so, that’s what St. Paul says about scripture, but, keep in mind, that, not even the Jews had a for sure cannon at the time (there were a few widely accepted cannons…some more widely accepted than others, according to envoymagazine.com/backissues/1.2/marapril_story2.html )meaning, that, he wasn’t talking about the New Testament, as, we didn’t even have the NT until 397.

Also, OMg. They just LOVE Rom 3:28, don’t they? Did you point out to him that St. Paul was talking about the Mosaic Law & not God’s law? Animal sacrifices of course are no longer going to cut it now that Jesus has been ressurected. I hope others can help you more than I!!

God bless you & Mary keep you!!!
I’ll pray for his open mind (I know, they are obstinant.)

 

[adstrinity]

ROTFL!!! Oh wow!!! That reminds me of the joke, “You know you’re a milleniallist if you’ve joined a church and you’ve gone through the Book of Revelation 3 times in the past two years.”