G
gurneyhalleck1
Guest
[/quote]Scott,
I would like to reply to a couple of points here, not as a challenge, but simply as a different viewpoint. I know you are openminded, and will at least listen.
I think that everything you say here, can be a valid criticism, which in the area of the ECF’s can lead to dialogue. On the point of Luther’s anti-Judaism, I will not defend the statements he made, just put into perspective. 1st, I say anti-judaism as I don’t want he (and many others of his time) held to be confused with the anti-semitism of, say the 20th century in Europe. His was a dislike of their religion, as opposed to a racial bigotry. It can also be said that, in this area, he was very much a product (and sadly contributer) of his time. In a word, anti-judaism was commonplace even in the Church.
I see your point, Jon, trust me. But no matter the motivation, I have a real fondness for the Jewish people, and it pains me to see the German persecutions and butchery of these poor folks. In Luther’s work “On the Jews and their Lies” he says ?they [the Jews] are full of the “devil’s feces … which they wallow in like swine.” He calls the synagogue a
“defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut …” And in that same text he talks about how Jewish property should be confiscated, their homes taken away, their synagogues burned down, and be refused legal protection. He also says they should be thrown into forced labor as well as “we are at fault in not slaying them.”
In 1546 Luther preached a sermon at Eisleben and said a lot of disturbing things. “They [Jews} are our public enemies. They do not stop blaspheming our Lord Christ, calling the Virgin Mary a whore, Christ, a bastard, and us changelings or “meal calves.” If they could kill us all, they would gladly do it. They do it often, especially those who pose as physcians—though sometimes they help—for the devil helps to finish it in the end…will not stop blaspheming Christ, draining you dry, and, if he can, killing us all."
This stuff sounds straight out of 1930’s Hitler rants. Hitler promoted the Jews as an infestation, a parasite, a plague, the reason for all financial problems and sucking away the soul of the German people, etc. Hitler and Luther’s writings bear real similitarities.
And at Nuremberg Julius Streicher, a Nazi propogandist, envoked Martin Luther. Scary stuff.
But I don’t want to demonize Lutherans as having some sort of anti-semitic heritage. Not at all. The Catholic Church in Germany was by no means pro-Jew and Luther’s views didn’t exist in a vacuum. I understand your point. But I still think that Luther’s venom toward them and his hatred is sickening. It bothers me because in so many ways I admire Luther’s passion about his faith and his bravery in the face of the Diet of Worms and possible death. I also admire his desire to reform. I think it was sincere, like I said earlier.
He also professed a strong adherance to a ministerial priesthood, called and ordained. The two are connected, but should not be confused. I cannot absolve sin on the authority of Christ in my Church anymore than you can in yours (if you’re not a priest).
You’re correct. That’s why I mentioned that the congregation had to call and support the ministry of the particular pastor. I never thought any old Tom, Dick, or Harry could just walk up there and minister lol. However, about 7 years ago, my wife and I were considering Lutheranism (LCMS of course, never ELCA!) and we went to a local LCMS Church (in fact, my son goes there for preschool and we LOVE IT!). What was odd, though, is there was no pastor there that day so they had one of the elders come up and “consecrate” the Eucharist! He just waved his hands and proclaimed it consecrated and everyone went up. We were perplexed. I’ve told that to many Missouri Synod Lutherans and they’re always baffled and outraged at that. Every church has an episode of strangeness I suppose. But that was weird.
I really like the conservative values of the LCMS and the fact they are more traditional. It’s also refreshing that they have closed communion, a male-only clergy, and they don’t tolerate so much of the garbage our culture is embracing. The folks at my son’s preschool are top-notch.
Like I said before, “Here I Stand” by Roland Bainton, is one of my favorite books. I have read it so many times that the cover is getting trashed. Great read…we just got back from a San Francisco Giants game up in SF and I took it along. That poor book is still hangin’ in there. We left S.F. and came home to the central valley from 70 degrees to 100 yuck! lol
More later. Let me know what you think.
Jon