Sola Scriptura, huh? hehe

[dan]

If you have an immature sense of humor like me, you might get a laugh or two out of these screen shot I captured a few minutes ago on Google:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7356/noprooftexthr1.png
Don’t get all mad at me, folks. Just havin’ a little fun.

I should probably go ahead and ask a real question, lest my thread get the boot: Has anyone ever gotten an answer when asking a non-Catholic Christian where in the Bible can we find the concept of Sola Scriptura?

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Acts 17:11
2 Timothy 3:16
Revelation 22:18-19

 

[MarcoPolo]

Has anyone ever gotten an answer when asking a non-Catholic Christian where in the Bible can we find the concept of Sola Scriptura?

I’ve gotten an answer, but not a correct one.
Click here.

 

[Newbie2]

The answer tends to be curious logic; Scripture can be interpreted to “prove” SS, like in the verses Tim provided, but there are just as many if not more that “prove” Tradition (Big T)…so discussions/arguments become a matter of interpretation, if one’s only source is SS.

 

[MarcoPolo]

The answer tends to be curious logic; Scripture can be interpreted to “prove” SS, like in the verses Tim provided, but there are just as many if not more that “prove” Tradition (Big T)…so discussions/arguments become a matter of interpretation, if one’s only source is SS.

The only trouble is that “interpreting” the word sola into any of those passages is improper.

 

[theistgal]

Two questions for the verses usually cited to prove “sola Scriptura” *:

1. Do any of these verses say Scripture only?
2. Also, at the time that each of these verses was written, what exactly constituted “Scripture”?

 

[mercygate]

Acts 17:11
2 Timothy 3:16
Revelation 22:18-19

Also the temptation of Jesus, when Jesus refutes satan by quoting Scripture.

R.C. Sproul (otherwise a highly responsible Christian teacher) gives a good history of the development of the canon then jumps to the curious position that the authority of the Church falls away after the canon is set because it is no longer needed.

 

[MarcoPolo]

R.C. Sproul (otherwise a highly responsible Christian teacher) gives a good history of the development of the canon then jumps to the curious position that the authority of the Church falls away after the canon is set because it is no longer needed.

This theory has always screamed “desperate” to me.

 

[mercygate]

This theory has always screamed “desperate” to me.

Sproul is famous for his observation that for Catholics, the Bible is an infallible collection of infallible books but for Protestants, iti is a fallible collection of infallible books.

The guy is really BRILLIANT. The fact that he comes up with stuff like this just shows you how deeply entrenched sola Scriptura is, even among responsible Christians. It has become an unchallenged axiom.

 

[NDfan]

Two questions for the verses usually cited to prove “sola Scriptura” *:

1. Do any of these verses say Scripture only?

No they don’t. But then again the word trinity doesn’t appear in scripture and neither does hypostatic union. So pulling the word sola out of scripture is no different than pulling out the word purgatory, trinity, hypostatic union etc.

But if we look at Luke 1:1-4:

1 Many people have set out to write accounts about the events that have been fulfilled among us. 2 They used the eyewitness reports circulating among us from the early disciples.[a] 3 Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write a careful account for you, most honorable Theophilus, 4 so you can be certain of the truth of everything you were taught.

Luke confirms here that he is writing an account of the truth so Theophilus knows what to believe from what he has been taught. I’ll safely assume that Luke is referring to oral teachings Theophilus was given. So one could say that Luke is telling Theophilus scripture only for confirming the truth.

Also when Jesus speaks he always references “as it is written”, not “as it has been orally taught”.

1. Also, at the time that each of these verses was written, what exactly constituted “Scripture”?

Scripture implied inspired from GOD. When someone said the word scripture it meant it came from the Lord. If you read 2 Peter 3:15-17 he endorses Paul’s writings as scripture. We know Paul wrote from his visions of Jesus.

PEACE

 

[NDfan]

If you have an immature sense of humor like me, you might get a laugh or two out of these screen shot I captured a few minutes ago on Google:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7356/noprooftexthr1.png
Don’t get all mad at me, folks. Just havin’ a little fun.

I should probably go ahead and ask a real question, lest my thread get the boot: Has anyone ever gotten an answer when asking a non-Catholic Christian where in the Bible can we find the concept of Sola Scriptura?

Hey Dan you may want to re-try your search with the word purgatory, or Pope etc. as you will get the same results (leaving the quotes on that is). But take the quotes off and you will get some. Also for sola scriptura.

Not sure what you were trying to prove

 

[MarcoPolo]

The guy is really BRILLIANT. The fact that he comes up with stuff like this just shows you how deeply entrenched sola Scriptura is, even among responsible Christians. It has become an unchallenged axiom.

He does seem civil, but he loses me on his teachings somewhat. I remember starting a thread on him and predestination a while back…ah here it is…

 

[NDfan]

He does seem civil, but he loses me on his teachings somewhat. I remember starting a thread on him and predestination a while back…ah here it is…

Marco his predestination is in-line with the Calvinist view of the doctrine of the elect also called efficacious grace. Augustine also believed in this and argued against the pelagian view.

Basically Sproul, Presbyterians etc. believe that you are so spiritually dead only GOD can awaken your desire for Jesus. But GOD only does this for certain people who then become part of the elect. They use parts of scripture where Jesus states no one comes to me unless the Father sends them among others. They give free will to choose Jesus no merit at all.

Methodists I believe for the most part oppose this and say that GOD presents Jesus to everyone giving them free will to choose. Once you choose Jesus then you become part of the elect and GOD sends you to HIM.

PEACE

 

[Ignatius]

If you have an immature sense of humor like me, you might get a laugh or two out of these screen shot I captured a few minutes ago on Google:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7356/noprooftexthr1.png
Don’t get all mad at me, folks. Just havin’ a little fun.

I should probably go ahead and ask a real question, lest my thread get the boot: Has anyone ever gotten an answer when asking a non-Catholic Christian where in the Bible can we find the concept of Sola Scriptura?

No, I’ve never gotten an answer, in fact they often get angry!

BTW, I’m stealing this.

 

[Ignatius]

Hey Dan you may want to re-try your search with the word purgatory, or Pope etc. as you will get the same results (leaving the quotes on that is). But take the quotes off and you will get some. Also for sola scriptura.

Not sure what you were trying to prove

We don’t claim that everything necessary to the Faith is in the Bible, so we have no problem if they are not.
If you hold that all necessary doctrines must be in the bible (ala Sola Scriptura), then Sola Scriptura must be in the bible. The most the bible claims for itself is that it is profitable for teaching, correction, admonition, etc. That is a far cry from claiming that it is the Sole Rule of Faith or that it is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.
IOW, if Sola Scriptura isn’t explicitly stated in the Bible, then it is a false doctrine.

 

[NotWorthy]

Hey Dan you may want to re-try your search with the word purgatory, or Pope etc. as you will get the same results (leaving the quotes on that is). But take the quotes off and you will get some. Also for sola scriptura.

Not sure what you were trying to prove

Well… the big difference is for something to be the infallible guide to truth, it ought to say it. When that something (the Bible) claims that the **Church **is the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth, it’s sort of ironic for other Christians to deny the Church and rely on Scripture.

Regarding Pope and Purgatory, we Catholics simply rely on the Church, the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth (not to be redundant, but it sometimes needs to be hammered home), to teach us this Truth.

 

[theistgal]

Scripture implied inspired from GOD. When someone said the word scripture it meant it came from the Lord. If you read 2 Peter 3:15-17 he endorses Paul’s writings as scripture. We know Paul wrote from his visions of Jesus.

PEACE

Yes - but the Gospels, the letters of St. Paul and other Apostles, and Revelations had not all been written and put together as the “New Testament” yet. So once again - when the verses you’re citing were written, what was “Scripture”?

 

[Erich]

Acts 17:11
2 Timothy 3:16
Revelation 22:18-19

From the article According to Scripture:

There are four problems with the defense of sola scriptura using 2 Timothy 3:16. First, it does not speak of the New Testament at all. The two verses preceding 2 Timothy 3:16 say:
But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. This passage does not refer to the New Testament. In fact, none of the New Testament books had been written when Timothy was a child. Claiming this verse as authentication for a book that had not been written yet goes far beyond what the text claims.

(etc.)

If 2 Timothy 3:16 proves anything, it proves too much, i.e. it proves that the scriptures of the New Testament are not necessary for a rule of faith at all (let alone the sole rule of faith).

 

[Erich]

Something else… who is the “man of God” referred to in 2 Timothy 3:17?

From the article By What Authority? A Challenge to Protestant Pastors

But, who is the “man of God?” You may wish to claim this title for yourself as well, but a short survey of Scripture’s use of the title will reveal that this, too, is a privileged title that cannot be simply taken upon oneself:
Moses
“This is the blessing with which Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.” (Deut. 33:1)

“Then the people of Judah came to Joshua at Gilgal; and Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite said to him, ‘You know what the LORD said to Moses the man of God in Kadesh-barnea concerning you and me.’” (Josh. 14:6)

The Angel of the Lord
“Then the woman came and told her husband, ‘A man of God came to me, and his countenance was like the countenance of the angel of God, very terrible; I did not ask him whence he was, and he did not tell me his name…’ Then Manoah entreated the LORD, and said, ‘O, LORD, I pray thee, let the man of God whom thou didst send come again to us, and teach us what we are to do with the boy that will be born.’” (Jud. 13:6, 8)

Samuel
“The servant answered Saul again, ‘Here, I have with me the fourth part of a shekel of silver, and I will give it to the man of God, to tell us our way.’” (1 Sam. 9:8)

Elijah
“And she said to Elijah, ‘What have you against me, O man of God? You have come to me to bring my sin to remembrance, and to cause the death of my son!’” (1 Kings 17:18)

Elisha
“And she went up and laid him on the bed of the man of God, and shut the door upon him, and went out… When Elisha came into the house, he saw the child lying dead on his bed.” (2 Kings 4:21, 32)

David
“According to the ordinance of David his father, he appointed the divisions of the priests for their service, and the Levites for their offices of praise and ministry before the priests as the duty of each day required, and the gatekeepers in their divisions for the several gates; for so David the man of God had commanded.” (2 Chr. 8:14)

St. Timothy
“But as for you, man of God, shun all this; aim at righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.” (1 Tim. 6:11) Contrary to the opinion that the “man of God” can be any Christian without distinction, Scripture itself will not allow such an interpretation, insisting that the “man of God” is a figure of authority, either commissioned by God directly through Divine Intervention (such as Moses or the Angel), or appointed by another holder of authority (such as Samuel, David, Elisha, and St. Timothy).

From this very brief survey of the phrase “man of God” (there are perhaps a dozen or so more passages, relating to the characters listed above - I have chosen representative verses), we see that what holds true for “pastors” holds true for the “man of God”: it is a title of authority that can in no way be taken upon oneself, but rather, it is bestowed upon a man by a higher authority. A man must be called by God to hold this title of “man of God.”

BTW, I recommend reading the entire article.

 

[cazayoux]

IOW, if Sola Scriptura isn’t explicitly stated in the Bible, then it is a false doctrine.

more specifically, a doctrine of man that is contrary to scripture.

michel