Solidarity Question (Revised)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wm777
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

Wm777

Guest
40.png
(For You) What has been Impact of Ecclesial Abuse on Church Solidarity? Catholic Living
Yeah, me neither. As I have said many times on this forum, people generally seem to leave the Church for the following reasons: Sin, especially premarital or extramarital sex/ porn/ masturbation/ artificial birth control etc, looked more attractive and the Church just seemed really old-fashioned on these matters. Laziness - it’s “boring” to go to Mass or pray a Rosary, “I get nothing out of it” etc Marriage - they marry a non-Catholic spouse and join spouse’s church, or they can’t ge…
Click to expand...
Am revising my question in the post above to try and emphasize what I was getting at…

For those who remember - back in the days of JP2 - there seemed to be such a sense of solidarity in the church… It was wonderful…

Today we seem more divided, and it is as if disruption is the “in-thing”…

Per these divisions - I just wonder if it could be having a positive effect?

For instance, one Priest at church in a homily commented on the second round of scandals, saying “the hope in al this is it will produce a better church in the end…”

I’m asking if you think that is true? If so, it would seem difficult for us right now, but nevertheless it could strangely have a positive, faith-building effect, which could be unifying… Hence, it would build solidarity, although it seems more of a winnowing exercise…

I still miss the days of JP2, though… 😦
 
Wm777 said:
For those who remember - back in the days of JP2 - there seemed to be such a sense of solidarity in the church… It was wonderful…
Click to expand...
I lived through the whole JP2 era as a teen/ adult. There wasn’t a big “sense of solidarity” in the Church then. We just didn’t have an Internet to complain and make blogs.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
40.png
Wm777:
For those who remember - back in the days of JP2 - there seemed to be such a sense of solidarity in the church… It was wonderful…
Click to expand...
I lived through the whole JP2 era as a teen/ adult. There wasn’t a big “sense of solidarity” in the Church then. We just didn’t have an Internet to complain and make blogs.
Click to expand...
I guess my question is… is all that actually having a positive effect… and in the right direction?
 
By the way, it’s ironic you say you miss the days of Pope JPII when there were clearly abusers running rampant and financial scandals happening during his papacy. I still think he was a good Pope and a great saint; he had a lot on his plate and focused heavily on the issues of communism, which is fine, I think that’s what God was guiding him to put first and foremost. Nowadays we have made great strides in the handling of abuse and other misconduct (like financial crimes or child porn) by priests, and most of the scandal is focused on how things were NOT handled or were covered up in the past, which includes during this era of supposed solidarity you mention.
 
People were more isolated, you only really knew what was happening in your parish, maybe the parish up the road and a little bit from the Diocese if you read their newspaper.

No internet meant fewer people inciting outrage.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Outrage is, in my opinion, poison.
Click to expand...
The difficulty here seems to be that some of it is justified… for example, when the church says it’s not going to cover stuff up, and then a few years later we find out they did the same thing again…

If it were the confessional, it would make sense there would be a need to observe the privacy of the seal… But then some of what came to light (by way of the scandals) didnt really have much to do with the confessional at all…

What I am trying to say here is… It seems like the victims had a right to be outraged… and, while that might seem like a bad thing… when the dust settles… while they never should have been violated… maybe there might be some ounce of redemption and betterment for the church in the long run?
 
Christ taught a way of radical love and forgiveness. I fail every single day to live what He taught, but, I get back up and try again.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Outrage usually has an underlying motive of making $$$ and getting power for the outrage monger.

Outrage is largely phoney baloney.
Click to expand...
That might be true in the majority of cases, but I was at a prayer meeting the other day, and as I was listening to the dialogue it just seemed like there are a lot of us who are deeply hurt by the tragedies.

In other words, I think many Catholics are angry… and justifiably so… in a way that has nothing to do with money… but because their faith and hopes have been violated…

I dont think we could say everyone’s hopes (for revenge or retribution) would always be fulfilled because sometimes God says “no”, so anger isnt always justified… but still… a violation of faith in a places that teaches faith is pretty grievous…

?
 
I believe there always is some bit of divide in the Church. we are a big tent. Lots of different people and lots of different views on things. But to a certain extent, our differences are a strength. They keep us talking about spirituality.
God bless the Roman Catholic Church! All for Jesus!
 
Wm777 said:
For those who remember - back in the days of JP2 - there seemed to be such a sense of solidarity in the church… It was wonderful… Today we seem more divided, and it is as if disruption is the “in-thing”…
Click to expand...
JP2’s era of “solidarity” had most to do with his public and strong criticism of Communism and in some sense official Atheism. The West at the time had a common and clearly defined foe. Part of this opposition went along with, in the US mainly, the idea that “Godless” Communism was to be responded to with displays of pious faith. This kind of society however does not tolerate or deal with its imperfections well, this would expose the cracks in its image of perfection.

We now live in a period of isolationism, nationalism, increased authoritarianism, and conspiracy theories. It’s pretty much the opposite of what you are depicting. The damaging issues revolve around conspiracy theories and distrust of institutions. There’s a paranoia now that nefarious forces are working against your cause and they must be countered at all costs. Even if what you feel is being opposed by well documented counter information. There’s cultural change occurring that is too fast for some people and a desire to force that change back. The internet certainly plays a part in it, but in many ways this is about returning to the “JP2” days and its glossed over imperfections.

Now I should add, that we’re partially seeing interest in slower and less tech things. People buying records, knitting, canning, etc. On the faith side of things there’s some renewed interest in deeper more competitive worship. I"d don’t think this a problem at all and does not necessarily contribute at all the societal noise we are experiencing as they are more personal in nature.
 
Wm777 said:
In other words, I think many Catholics are angry… and justifiably so… in a way that has nothing to do with money… but because their faith and hopes have been violated…
Click to expand...
Yes, but don’t think that feeling can’t be monetized or used as a distraction to obtain power.
 
I guess the question is - what would be an appropriate way to deal with it?

It would seem like, if nothing was really done about it, then the problem would either repeat itself or (what’s worse) manifest itself again in some other way…

BTW, I like what you’re saying, so please dont take my question the wrong way… I’m not making any money off the asking…

It’s just frustrating to my prayerlife at times… It would be great if there was some kind of redemption to the suffering, though… That’s actually why I asked…

Redemption is kind of a weird thing with respect to money versus morality… because financially redemption does theoretically produce a turnover in profit… so any redemption of this sort might also have a sort of non-transparent “masking” effect in the exchange… even then - a lot of the coverups in the church were likely the results of arbitration and out-of-court, off-the-record settements the church made with plaintiffs…

What I am asking is - what a proper morally justified peacemaking reconciliation would entail? and if an expression of and a purgation of such anger is in some ways justifiable?
 
What does money have to do with “redemption”?

Monetary settlements in civil law are generally about making the victim whole for the loss they suffered. For example, compensating them for their medical bills, pain and suffering, etc.

Monetary fines in criminal law are generally about punishing the perpetrator and sometimes recouping a cost to society (for example, someone convicted of a crime is expected to pay a certain amount to help cover the cost of the criminal justice system having to deal with them).

Neither has anything to do with “redemption to the suffering”, whatever you mean by that.
 
Wm777 said:
What I am asking is - what a proper morally justified peacemaking reconciliation would entail? and if an expression of and a purgation of such anger is in some ways justifiable?
Click to expand...
Personally, not placing all of your support in one basket. This is a little political and my personal opinion, but pro-life promises (it’s also done on the pro-choice side, but I think the implications are less at the moment) have allowed us to be hoodwinked into tax cuts that really do favor big business and Wall St. The personal cut expire in a few years but the business ones don’t. We also have been talked into conflating small non-public with the public one. Public ones are about quarterly profit and the talk that they would hire more minimal. What we have been seeing are public companies mainly doing stock buyback to increase share price. Small business are about relationships and longer term profit stability that benefit the owner(s) not a detached hedge fund.

So i place a high priority on not being a one issue voter and keeping informed about what is going on. I think that results in less division because I think this encourages people to grant power and profit based on what is good for the common person as a whole.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top