Some Help Please?

[Phyllo]

Hi,
I don’t know where to put this so here it is. If in the wrong place please move.

Here is an example of where I need help:

In reading the CCC Paragraph 366 there is a footnote 235 the footnote says Pius XII, Humani Generis ok so I found Humani Generis but what does DS3896: I assume that this number is telling me where exactly in the letter the reference is found but how do I find DS3896 What does DS mean?
Thanks anyone

 

[davidv]

Hi,
I don’t know where to put this so here it is. If in the wrong place please move.

Here is an example of where I need help:

In reading the CCC Paragraph 366 there is a footnote 235 the footnote says Pius XII, Humani Generis ok so I found Humani Generis but what does DS3896: I assume that this number is telling me where exactly in the letter the reference is found but how do I find DS3896 What does DS mean?
Thanks anyone

DS = Denzinger-Schonmetzer, Enchiridion Symbolorum, definitionum et declarationum de rebus fidei et morum (1965)

from the abbreviation section of the online CCC.

 

[Joe_5859]

David is right. The DS was a project started by a guy named Denzinger in the mid-1800s. It’s basically a quasi-official compendium of official magisterial documents, specifically as they pertain to Catholic dogma. The footnotes in the Catechism will give you the reference to the actual document (in this case, Humani Generis), and then they point you to where in the DS you can find that portion of that particular document.

I think it’s helpful for those who wrote the CCC and those who have copies of the DS on hand. For our purposes, it’s usually just a redundant citation. What you’re really looking for is Humani Generis.

To further complicate matters, the places online that you can find the DS (like here) are numbered differently than the version that the CCC is using. So if you go looking there for a particular number you saw in the CCC, you’re not going to find the passage you’re looking for.

 

[Phyllo]

David is right. The DS was a project started by a guy named Denzinger in the mid-1800s. It’s basically a quasi-official compendium of official magisterial documents, specifically as they pertain to Catholic dogma. The footnotes in the Catechism will give you the reference to the actual document (in this case, Humani Generis), and then they point you to where in the DS you can find that portion of that particular document.

I think it’s helpful for those who wrote the CCC and those who have copies of the DS on hand. For our purposes, it’s usually just a redundant citation. What you’re really looking for is Humani Generis.

To further complicate matters, the places online that you can find the DS (like here) are numbered differently than the version that the CCC is using. So if you go looking there for a particular number you saw in the CCC, you’re not going to find the passage you’re looking for.

So I did find Humani Generis but I will not be able to find a particular paragraph that the CCC cites? I find this most frustrating. If we,the CCC reader, can’t access these passages why bother putting there in the first place. In my reading I am not going to stop to read all of HG to find the paragraph.

I am studying with a girl and in certain paragraphs the CCC gives the DS numbers instead of bible verses and she wants to see the verses.

She is not interested in what Popes or councils or church fathers have to say.
Your answer is most helpful. Thank you very much Joe

 

[Joe_5859]

So I did find Humani Generis but I will not be able to find a particular paragraph that the CCC cites? I find this most frustrating. If we,the CCC reader, can’t access these passages why bother putting there in the first place. In my reading I am not going to stop to read all of HG to find the paragraph.

I am studying with a girl and in certain paragraphs the CCC gives the DS numbers instead of bible verses and she wants to see the verses.

She is not interested in what Popes or councils or church fathers have to say.
Your answer is most helpful. Thank you very much Joe

Well, they’re just using a source that not a lot of us lay folk have, nor is it online in the form that they are using. When we’re talking about the older Church documents, they often can’t just pull out some newly published booklet to do their research. The DS is the source they’re looking at and it doesn’t really give the paragraph numbers of the original.

I know I get spoiled by being able to look up so many things so quickly on the internet.

What I do is I pull up the document on the Vatican website (if available). Here is Humani Generis. Then I do a “Ctrl-F” search for key words. First, I tried “produced”, since that is the word in quotes in CCC 366. No matches. They must be translating the Latin word differently in the CCC. So then I look to other possible key words. I tried “soul”. 6 matches. The first 5 are obviously being used in different contexts, but the sixth match from paragraph 36 looks promising:

“…for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God.”

That seems to me to be the likely source for the footnote. But, of course, if you want to be 100% certain, there’s no substitute for reading the whole thing.

 

[davidv]

So I did find Humani Generis but I will not be able to find a particular paragraph that the CCC cites? I find this most frustrating. If we,the CCC reader, can’t access these passages why bother putting there in the first place. In my reading I am not going to stop to read all of HG to find the paragraph.

I am studying with a girl and in certain paragraphs the CCC gives the DS numbers instead of bible verses and she wants to see the verses.

She is not interested in what Popes or councils or church fathers have to say.
Your answer is most helpful. Thank you very much Joe

A source for the direct quotes of the CCC footnotes is the book

The Companion to the Catechism of the Catholic Church: A Compendium of Texts Referred to in the Catechism of the Catholic Church Including an Addendum

 

[Phyllo]

A source for the direct quotes of the CCC footnotes is the book

The Companion to the Catechism of the Catholic Church: A Compendium of Texts Referred to in the Catechism of the Catholic Church Including an Addendum

You know David after I read the posts from you and Joe I went down to my book case and did find the Companion that you are talking about. They do in that book give the complete paragraph that they mention in the footnotes. I just trust what the CCC is telling me but this friend wants to check all the footnotes out. Now we can turn to the Companion .

Thanks again . I am never disappointed here. Some one always has the answer.
God Bless