Some More Chat Room Fun

[ICXCNIKA]

This is a conversation I recently had in a chat room. I am OLOPH.

[OLOPH]: I’ve got a fun Bible question.

[CC]: ok shoot

OLOPH]: Is the Bible the pillar and foundation of the Truth?

[CC]: well God is the foundation, but He has given us the Bible to teach us the truth

[OLOPH]: Most people answer that, yes, the Bible is the pillar and foundation of the Truth. But the Bible says something different is the pillar and foundation of the Truth. It’s in 1Timothy 3:15.

[CC]: I think that capitalizing the “Truth” could be misleading

[CC]: If you are using it for that verse

[CC]: It isn’t capitalized in that verse, nor do I think it is meant to be

OLOPH]: Oh, I capitalize Truth when I mean eternal Truth. I assume Paul is talking about the Truth of the gospel, but you are correct, it isn’t capitalized in the Bible. In fact, in ancient Greek, they didn’t use capital letters.

[CC]: but yes I do agree, but I can understand why people would answer yes to the question

[OLOPH]: The Amplified Bible capitalizes it, but it is a translation: If I am detained, you may know how people ought to conduct themselves in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and stay (the prop and support) of the Truth.

[CC]: because when you ask the question, it sounds like you are phrasing it as is the Bible Truth

[OLOPH]: Oh, I can understand why, too. After all the Bible is Truth.

[CC]: but yes, the church upholds the truth of God’s revealed word

[OLOPH]: Which Church?

[CC]: my study bible also says Paul might have been using imagery because he was preaching in a place filled with temples and pillars to false gods

[CC]: church=all believers

OLOPH]: The Church is all the believers? What about those who believe different things, but say they are believers? Are they the Church, too?

[CC]: absolutely not

[CC]: Bible never says non believers are the church…

[OLOPH]: No, I don’t mean non believers, I mean Christians who believe different things. For instance, some people believe that one must be baptized to be saved and others say you don’t have to be baptized. Both believe something different, but both claim to be Christians, are they Church?

[CC]: yes, all believers are the church

[CC]: we agree on the essentials, we can disagree on non essentials

[OLOPH]: Well, if someone believes that one must be baptized to be saved, then that is pretty essential isn’t it? Either one is wrong or they are both wrong. How can they both be Church if they disagree on how one is saved?

CC]: because they believe it or not does not make it true

[CC]: because one thinks baptism saves doesn’t mean that one who isn’t baptized isn’t a part of the church

 

[ICXCNIKA]

[CC]: They just aren’t in that person’s opinion

OLOPH]: So how does one know the Truth?

[CC]: How one defines “the church” doesn’t mean it isn’t made up of believers

[CC]: but people may define differently what believers are

[CC]: as I stated above, Christians agree on essentials

[CC]: they are absolutely the truth

[CC]: as stated in the Bible

[OLOPH]: Well, in the early Church, weren’t there people who claimed to be Christian believers, who were not? How did the early Christians know who were the real Christians, the Church, and who were not?

[CC]: again… there are absolutes, if people deny the essentials, they aren’t Christians, as simple as that

[OLOPH]: But there are some Christians who will argue that it is essential that one be baptized to be saved and that the bible teaches that. There are others who will argue, no the bible does not teach that one must be baptized to be saved. So, which one is right. And if the first one says it is essential, then who is right and who is the Christian? How do we decide on the essentials since so many Christian Churches disagree on what the essentials are?

[CC]: being baptized or not for salvation is not something all Christians will agree on

[CC]: therefore it is not an essential

[CC]: Christians will all agree on these points

[CC]: the Bible is the infallible word of God

[CC]: We believe in one God manifest in Three persons: father, Son, HS

[CC]: All men are sinners and must confess Jesus as Savior and repent of sin

OLOPH]: So, what are the essentials that all Christians must agree upon to be part of the Church?

[CC]: All Christians must believe Jesus died and arose from the dead

[CC]: all of these are essentials of the Christian faith

[CC]: No Christian denies any of these

 

[ICXCNIKA]

[OLOPH]: Okay, so…Belief in the Trinity, Belief that all men are sinners, Belief that the bible is the infallible word of God, Confessing Jesus as savior, repenting from sin and belief in the resurrection are all the essentials that one needs to be a Christian and part of the Church?

[CC]: yes, those are the essentials

[OLOPH]: Who says those are the essentials?

[CC]: I think you are trying to understand who all believers are

[CC]: and that is not something one can know

[CC]: Only God knows the heart of men

[CC]: as for who says

[CC]: God says in the Bible

OLOPH]: But, my question is, how do you know that those are the essentials?

[CC]: each of those is clearly defined as needed for salvation and all Christians agree on them

[OLOPH]: Where in the Bible does it say that believing God is manifest in three persons is essential?

[CC]: If we deny the deity of the Lord, it is impossible to be saved

[CC]: It isn’t just God, it is Father, Son, and HS

[OLOPH]: You said that it is essential to believe that God is manifest in THree persons; father, Son, HS. and you said that God says that in the Bible. So my question is, where in the Bible does God say that it is essential to believe that God is manifest in three persons?

[OLOPH]: The question isn’t if Christians deny it. You said that believing that God manifests himself in three persons is essential and that God tells us that in the Bible. My question is, where is that in the Bible?

[CC]: There isn’t a Bible verse that says that exact sentence

[OLOPH]: But you said that God tells us in the Bible that it is essential to believe that God manifests himself in three persons. Where is that in the bible?

[CC]: Just as the word trinity is not in the Bible

[CC]: but we clearly know from scripture there is one God, and we know that Father, Son, and HS are all God

[CC]: Let me ask this question to you, how is one saved according to the Bible?

[OLOPH]: ]: “God says in the Bible” Where does God say in the bible?

[CC]: do we have to call upon the Lord and confess Jesus is Lord?

[CC]: are we able to pray to anyone but God?

[CC]: If we do not confess Jesus is Lord (God) and call upon Him, (praying to God) then how can one be saved if they

deny who He is?

[OLOPH]: Certainly. The Bible tells us that. However, the original question is, What are the essentials. You’ve told me what the essentials are. The next question was, how do you know those are the essentials. You told me that they are the essentials because they are in the bible. But baptism is in the bible, but you don’t list it as one of your essentials although 1 Peter 3:21 says “and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge”

At this point my questions were ignored.