Some questions about sexual ethics.

[salival]

Hi, I would like to know the Catholic answer to these questions:

1-Oral Sex, is it moral or immoral? Why?

2-Divorce, I know it is immoral. But can anyone provide some reasons?

3-Sex between people who are sterile and can’t have children. Is it moral?

Thanks in advance,

sal

 

[rayne89]

1-Yes, as long as the end result is intercourse and the man “plants his seed” the proper place.

1. there’s plenty in Bible on that. I’'ll get back with you unless someone beats me to it.
2. Yes it is moral as long as it is with in the context of marriage ofcourse.

 

[Subrosa]

Hi Salival -

Sexuality, according to Jesus’ teaching is reserved for people who are married. Also, in the Bible St Paul tells us that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Therefore we should not treat our bodies with disrespect by prostituting it. Read Matthew 19:1-12, 1 Corinthians 6:12-20 and Romans 8:1-13.

As for your questions:

1-Oral sex - This may be considered by some to be a form of sodomy. God burned the city of Sodom to the ground because of the sexual crime and other debased sinning occuring there. (This story is where we get the word sodomy) However, if performed by a married couple, it may fit into Christ’s teachings on marraige. I know of no direct teaching concerning this.

2 - In the Bible Jesus tells us that marraige is a bond created by God. “The two are made one flesh.” also “…whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery.”

3 - It’s OK if thier married.

Let’s be honest here. Human sexuality is a fundimental urge. All humans are concubescent. Only the strictest people observe these rules, especially the ordained ministers of the church who take vows of celibacy, and even they slip up once in a while. In Catholic theology, concubiscence is viewed as a consequence of Original Sin. No one, except Mary is exempt from it.

It is one of the things Jesus left us the Sacrament of Reconciliation for. But don’t abuse it.

Subrosa

salival:

Hi, I would like to know the Catholic answer to these questions:

1-Oral Sex, is it moral or immoral? Why?

2-Divorce, I know it is immoral. But can anyone provide some reasons?

3-Sex between people who are sterile and can’t have children. Is it moral?

Thanks in advance,

sal

 

[salival]

Thanks for the answers so far.

In the case of “Sex between people who are sterile and can’t have children”. How can we oppose homosexual sex/marriage? Would not the sterile people have sex for pleasure only since they can’t procreate? And it is no fault of their own?

What about homosexuals that are like that because it is no fault of their own?

Again, thanks in advance for your answers.

sal

 

[Montie_Claunch]

Homosexualoty is a sin because the bible says it is explicitly in Romans chapter 1:24-32. The Church follows that.

 

[verismo]

salival:

Hi, I would like to know the Catholic answer to these questions:

1-Oral Sex, is it moral or immoral? Why?

2-Divorce, I know it is immoral. But can anyone provide some reasons?

3-Sex between people who are sterile and can’t have children. Is it moral?

Thanks in advance,

sal

Hi!
Great questions.

For question 1- try this thread in the Ask an apologist forum: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=73689
and this one forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=72784
and this one forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=72696

As to 2-I think it is just best to say, that Jesus said that we can’t do it. In Matt5:

31 "It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
32 But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced
woman commits adultery.

So, separation is fine, so long as you don’t remarry.And at that point, sex with others would be considered the same, adultery. And also, remember that not every marriage that is “on the books” really is a Sacramental marriage, i.e. though you live as husband and wife, and the State calls you marriage, there was/is something defective in the form that makes it invalid. Like our lives as true followers of Christ are seen in our fruits, the fruits of a marriage can speak to the same. In this case, the Church declares an annulment, and after that you are free to marry, as you actually never really were.

3- a married couple can have sex as much as they want, so long as their wills, not their bodies, are open to Children. You can’t render your body incapable yourself-through operation, or the pill etc, then “call” yourself open to life. But if, through natural causes, a woman’s or a man’s body is unable to have children, this in not their fault. Also, I think it can be seen as a lovely act of faith! Who knows when God will perform another miracle, and grant them children; remember Sarai!

 

[mercygate]

salival:

Thanks for the answers so far.

In the case of “Sex between people who are sterile and can’t have children”. How can we oppose homosexual sex/marriage? Would not the sterile people have sex for pleasure only since they can’t procreate? And it is no fault of their own?

Are homosexuals sterile? Marriage requires one man and one woman, the relationship is exclusive, and it lasts until death. Fault doesn’t enter the equation here. If a man and a woman are capable of performing the marital act, even if sterile, this is not an impediment to marriage. Homosexuals do not perform the marriage act because it requires one man and one woman. Regarding “sex for pleasure only” in the case of the sterile couple, we have cases in the Bible where people were either actually or apparently sterile (Sarah, Hannah, Elizabeth) who ultimately were able to conceive. They were capable of engaging in the marital act and they were all hoping to conceive a child.

What about homosexuals that are like that because it is no fault of their own?

What about people who are single “through no fault of their own?” It has nothing to do with “fault.” If I am blind “through no fault of my own” should I be permitted to drive a car? Or should I only be barred from driving a car if I am blind because I poked my own eyes out?

 

[jpusateri]

One thing I thought of while reading this topic is that there are a few key relationships in the Bible where the woman was considered barren (a sterile relationship) and yet normal conjugal relations were continued and expected because, depite human wisdom, God made them fruitful.

Also, even sterilization today is imperfect and normal relations can produce a baby. God can and does find a way.

 

[verismo]

salival:

Thanks for the answers so far.

In the case of “Sex between people who are sterile and can’t have children”. How can we oppose homosexual sex/marriage? Would not the sterile people have sex for pleasure only since they can’t procreate? And it is no fault of their own?

What about homosexuals that are like that because it is no fault of their own?

Again, thanks in advance for your answers.

sal

Well, there is quite a hot debate over whether it is “a fault” of their own. Desires are not our fault, but our choices always are. So, whether or not they have the desires, they are performing an act that God has called forbidden; that is not said to judge their souls, or their knowledge, or their will. But, given the clear condemnation of the action, we can condemn the act. The actor? That judgment is up to God.

Also, even if full functioning mode, Homosexuals can never bear children. So, their Will on the topic is moot. All sexual acts outside of a marriage of a man and woman are forbidden, all sexual acts inside a marriage that deliberately remove the possibility of children are forbidden. So, if you leave the possibility of children in your married sex, have fun, do all you like, and how you like. Otherwise…

 

[petra]

salival:

Thanks for the answers so far.

In the case of “Sex between people who are sterile and can’t have children”. How can we oppose homosexual sex/marriage? Would not the sterile people have sex for pleasure only since they can’t procreate? And it is no fault of their own?

What about homosexuals that are like that because it is no fault of their own?

Again, thanks in advance for your answers.

sal

Homosexual activity is not wrong on the basis that children cannot be produced or that there is pleasure involved. It is wrong because sex is reserved for the sacrament of marriage and God designed marriage to be between a man and a woman. (Couples cannot contracept, but if one or both cannot have children, the Church does not forbide relations.)

When you say that homosexuals that are “like that,” do you mean their orientation or their activity? The orientation may not be a choice, but it need not be acted upon.

 

[Philthy]

salival:

Hi, I would like to know the Catholic answer to these questions:

1-Oral Sex, is it moral or immoral? Why?

Immoral. It separates the procreative and unitive aspects of sexual relations.

2-Divorce, I know it is immoral. But can anyone provide some reasons?
Because God says so.

3-Sex between people who are sterile and can’t have children. Is it moral?
Not necessarily.

Thanks in advance,

sal

 

[Philthy]

salival:

In the case of “Sex between people who are sterile and can’t have children”. How can we oppose homosexual sex/marriage?

Sex is an activity reserved for

• A MAN and A WOMAN
• joined by the Sacrament of Martimony

Two people of the same sex cannot fulfill either of those 2 criteria. Very simple.

salival:
Would not the sterile people have sex for pleasure only since they can’t procreate?

If a married person is having sex for their own pleasure only, without desiring or intending the unitive, self-giving nature of sexual intimacy, it is wrong. In short, it is never OK to be selfish.

salival:

What about homosexuals that are like that because it is no fault of their own?

No sin becomes holy because we have an attraction to it. Please re-read that sentence if you didn’t understand it.
There are many sins I am tempted by, by my nature. That in no way makes it OK for me to choose to sin. For example: I am a man who is married, yet I am sexually attracted to other women. I can’t help it, as you say, it’s no fault of my own - its only “natural”. Does that make it OK for me to indulge myself in extra-marital sexual relations? Of course not, adultery remains a sin - even though I have a natural attraction to it. Reread the first sentence again.
You have simply bought into the argument that homosexuality is somehow different than any other sin that we desire. It isn’t, at least not from God’s perspective.

Phil

 

[Ghosty]

Philthy: Oral sex doesn’t remove the unitive aspect of the marital act unless it’s performed until the man “finishes”. Prior to that it is foreplay, reserved for a married couple intending to “finish” the act, but not forbidden at all. This according to John Paul II, BTW.

 

[petra]

salival:

Hi, I would like to know the Catholic answer to these questions:

1-Oral Sex, is it moral or immoral? Why?

2-Divorce, I know it is immoral. But can anyone provide some reasons?

3-Sex between people who are sterile and can’t have children. Is it moral?

Thanks in advance,

sal

1. There have recently been some posts in the AAA forum on this topic. Based on what the CA apologists have been saying about it, Rayne89 in the second post got it right.
2. There are situations in which it is necessary to remove oneself from a dangerous environment. This is not immoral. But a valid marriage can never be broken, and a subsequent remarriage without declaration of nullity is immoral. God’s perspective? He hates divorce (Mal. 2:16), but yet He issued a writ of divorce to Israel and sent her away for her faithlessness (Jer. 3:8). If divorce is immoral in every instance, then God has sinned.
3. Only if they are married.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Ghosty:

Philthy: Oral sex doesn’t remove the unitive aspect of the marital act unless it’s performed until the man “finishes”. Prior to that it is foreplay, reserved for a married couple intending to “finish” the act, but not forbidden at all. This according to John Paul II, BTW.

Isn’t it in his book, “The Theology of the Body”? I haven’t read it, but I should sometime.

 

[Ghosty]

“Theology of the Body” and “Love and Responsibility” both deal with sexual issues, but the latter is the one that deals specifically with the when/where/hows of oral sex, I believe. It was written when he was a Cardinal.

 

[AquinasXVI]

Sal:

Try Naked Without Shame (cd or cassette) by Christopher West. It is an explaination and exposition of the Theology of the Body. The whole drama of our corporeal existence is beautifully explained.

For my own experience of learning it, it has clarified and dignified my view of people and relationships. The people who teach this often refer to this Theology of the Body as the time bomb that will destroy the illustions of the sexual revolution . I believe that.

in XT

 

[barsapp]

Is it Apologetics the right place for these matters?
May be Moral Theology is a more appropriate forum…

 

[StCsDavid]

Subrosa:

Hi Salival -
Let’s be honest here. Human sexuality is a fundimental urge. All humans are concubescent. Only the strictest people observe these rules, especially the ordained ministers of the church who take vows of celibacy, and even they slip up once in a while. In Catholic theology, concubiscence is viewed as a consequence of Original Sin. No one, except Mary is exempt from it.
Subrosa

Sorry to be picky, but the word is **concupiscence
**

 

[rayne89]

rayne89:

1. there’s plenty in Bible on that. I’'ll get back with you unless someone beats me to it.

sjnohio.com/Divorce.htm

*In Matthew 19: 3-10, **“Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, ‘Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?’ He answered, ‘Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.’ They said to him, ‘Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?’ He said to them, ‘For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery.’”

Some argue that the phrase, “except on the ground of unchastity,” constitutes an “exception clause” that allows for divorce and remarriage in cases where one or both spouses commits adultery. But this is a misreading of the text. The Greek word here for unchastity, “porneia,” refers to sexual unlawfulness in which two “spouses” are not validly married (cf. John 4:17-18), though they live as if they were. In such cases, to separate and then marry someone else would not constitute adultery, since the two parties were not really married to begin with.
*