Some says, "I'm a spiritual person..."

  • Thread starter Thread starter storywriter
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

storywriter

Guest
(This MIGHT be more apologetics related, but I’m going with my gut and putting it in Evangelization! Moderators can move it, if need be 🙂 )

I was just looking at another, secular, message board, and a topic came from people who say they are “spiritual people,” but don’t necessarily believe in God, they believe someone created the world, and after that who knows. Someone even said “religious dogmas are simply human creations,” (I nicely corrected her on that religious dogmas and the bible aren’t “simply human creations,” they were made by God through the Holy Spirit, the bible is the inspired word of God… etc…) People were saying they have faith, even though they don’t necessarily believe in God. I had to ask, “What do you have faith in then? Saying there is a creator is how you believe the world started, that is not putting your faith into anything. I’m being sincere, someone please explain this perspective.”

I’ll be honest though, it drives me batty when I hear/see people say “I’m a ‘spiritual’ person…” and then they ramble off about “energies” and “forces” unknown to us, “there is no afterlife-oh well maybe I do believe in an afterlife- no I don’t- I make up my own rules of sin, I use my best judgement, the bible is flawed” — you get the idea.

My question for everyone here… how do you respond to people that are “spiritual”? Do just pray for them and not say anything? Do you explain your Catholic Christian faith? (And if you do, how much do you “dumb it down”?) Or do you just go full force into trying to help them convert? I think for me, I always play it by ear… think about it, pray on it, and decide if I should try and respond or not. (In this instance, I couldn’t let the “simply human creations,” go, and responded.)
 
Drives me batty, too.

People make a choice to serve. There is no getting around that. And one can either serve Satan or God. No getting around that either.

As for what I tell them—if I didn’t flat-out tell them the above, I’d continue to ask questions, and see what happens when they stumble over their own contradictions.
 
One thing that I find with “these” people, as you noted as well, they are very relativistic. I would start by breaking down their arguments for relativism. You also have to remember that a lot of people have a different meaning for the word spiritual, which is annoying. I think the best thing to do is to poke holes in their ideas and logic. Not to be mean but to show them that their has to be a creator.

Here is an 8 step proof of God as the creator or “first mover”.
  1. Out of nothing comes nothing, for potentiality is a product of being.
  2. Potentiality is not an actual being.
  3. All beings that change are not absolute beings, for they are contingent on preceding events in order to be, and are gaining in being by proceeding into the future. Thus they proceed in being by potentiality, which is in itself founded upon a preceding reality.
  4. There cannot be an infinite regress in which potentiality precedes being. Neither can time be synonymous with ultimate being/existence. In order for something to change, it must have the potentiality to do so, and its changing is evidence of that potentiality. Thus there cannot be such a thing as an infinitely changing being, since potentiality would have to infinitely precede being. Potentiality must be founded upon being. Thus change is ultimately caused by a being that is not changing; transcending the potentiality and being of that which changes.
  5. Its logically impossible and meaningless for there to be such a thing as an infinite “number” of events since an infinity transcends all numbers, and thus all events.
  6. Nothing is not a being or an actual thing. Therefore it is impossible for it to be positively true that there is such a thing as absolute nothingness, because “truth” is founded on being. That being the case, a positive nothingness is meaningless. Therefore there must be a necessary absolute eternal being that is existence by nature, is the immutable root of all truth, and is therefore perfect being, and is also the timeless principle by which things have the potential to be; for out of nothing comes nothing.
  7. The first cause cannot be an accidental physical cause, since accidents require the potentiality to gain in space/time. Absolute Existence transcends all space/time, and thus all potentiality.
  8. If a first cause cannot be an accidental cause in space/time, then there is only one other possibility. The first cause has a perfect, transcendent and personal will.
 
If you’re maintaining a conversation with them on the subject then I’d keep asking questions to make THEM question their own “beliefs” (or lack thereof).

I’m no expert on this but my hunch is that these “spiritual people” are simply lying to themselves. They try to embrace a “light” system of beliefs that they can mold to their own liking or change whenever it’s no longer convenient while knowing deep down that there is in fact something greater than them.

To me, it seems that their “unbelief” in God is there because they don’t WANT to believe in Him because of all that the belief entails. They think they’ll be “bound” or become “slaves” to God while not realizing that they’re binding themselves in chains because of their attachment to the world and lacking in anything truly “spiritual”.

Don’t let it drive you batty, for patience (for you) and pray for them to be enlightened. The fact that they’re “spiritual” can help them eventually realize that there’s more, so don’t give up on them. They know there’s something deep down but are just wandering aimlessly.

Listen to what Peter said too and see if that helps.
 
As someone already pointed out, the “spiritual” persons you’ve described are simply relativists that have applied their relativism to matters of religion. You may want to undermine their position with their own position. What I mean:

1)They say things like: “Religion is just man’s opinion about God”; or other similar epithets. Point out that in lieu of accepting one “opinion” they have merely inserted their own, which is not only undemocratic, but downright dogmatic.
2) Because of (1), they are guilty of their own charges against religion. They are hypocrites. If they complain that men have made opinions about God into a religion, point out that they have guaranteed their religion is man-made because they admit to making it up themselves.
3) Dogma came before you or I or the “spiritual person” was around. Therefore, we can at least trust that it did not originate in our own minds, which is several steps away from making God in our own image, as they are proud to do

Also, have you ever noticed a corollation between those who say, “I’m spiritual, I just don’t like organized religion” and those who do not mind a massive and highly organized government? Do they play baseball without rules as well? That’s not baseball . . .it’s catch.

Spirituality without dogma is self-projection. It is, literally, the religion of man.

All my best . . .
 
Pray for them too. Prayer, especially to the Blessed Mother, is the chief way to affect a real change. Logic is great, understanding is wonderful, but their hearts have to be open and that’s where only the Holy Spirit can act.

It’s important also to know where they’re coming from, so asking questions helps with this. And knowing how to refute their positions is very helpful when the time comes that their hearts actually are open to answers. Then it’s a real shame if we don’t know how to respond to them well enough.
 
Drives me batty too…I have a hard time debating religion with people, so I don’t do it, I just avoid the issue, I’ll tell them my beliefs if they ask ,and if they want to start debating, i’ll put the kibosh on it…some people are better at debating than others…
 
As mentioned, “spiritual” means different things to different people, so a logical starting point would be to ask them to define their definition of “spiritual”. I would also be saying a quick prayer and asking the Holy Spirit to lead you in what to say.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top