Someone's dodging loan payments

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Psalm_37_4-5

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What would you do and/or what responsibility do you have if you were aware that someone you know pretty “well” is dodging loan payments? As in, avoiding getting mail, giving current address, that kind of thing… and it’s a BIG amount… as in over $100k… and other people are getting calls from the collection agency trying to track the person down…

I need to provide some sound advice and would appreciate suggestions from anyone who has any experience with this type of thing, in a “legal” way as well as feedback on the morality/ethical sides of this.

If more info needs to be supplied, please ask me more questions about it.
 
gI dont know what your responsibility is, but its not like that guy is having fun with this mess. If its his problem you should be careful not to put yourself in a situation were if he gets caught he will blame you or hold anything against you. I wouldnt ruin a friendship over money they owe to someone else, if they are involved in major crime then thats a different story which you should report.

p.s. why is you screen name different from you signature?
 
I don’t know. I don’t think its right for you to help him hide, especially if this debt is a legal one.

If you get calls from people looking for him I would just tell them what I know. After all they do have a right to know and find him and to lie in a case like this would not only be a sin (AFAIK) but could also open you up to charges like obstruction if it is later found out that you did know where he could be found.
 
Catholic Dude:
p.s. why is you screen name different from you signature?
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I should have left the psalm name off… I guess I like both and periodically change my signature… I just changed it and wondered if it would look funny… apparently so 🙂 I’ll fix it…
 
The dilemma comes in when you think about a person’s responsibility and being concerned that person will go after you if you do do something… just wondering how to weigh those things out, I guess. Want to do what’s “right…”
 
You don’t have a legal obligation to respond to collection agencies if it’s not your debt they’re calling about. Having done some skip-tracing in my time, it’s amazing what one can find out from neighbors and others with a few telephone calls. He can’t hide forever.
 
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JimG:
You don’t have a legal obligation to respond to collection agencies if it’s not your debt they’re calling about. Having done some skip-tracing in my time, it’s amazing what one can find out from neighbors and others with a few telephone calls. He can’t hide forever.
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While not having a legal obligation to respond to collection agencies, I think you may have a moral responsiblity to respond.

Here are some paragraphs from the Catechism.

2482 “A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving.” The Lord denounces lying as the work of the devil: “You are of your father the devil, . . . there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

2483 Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error. By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.

2484 The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.
 
Thank you for all the insight, and the CCC quotes… I hope people continue to post… this is very helpful. All of it.

I do need to give advice to someone, but I am also “in the know” about some of what is going on and in addition to misleading loan people, collection agencies and perhaps even the IRS (I don’t know for sure about the IRS), this person has also seriously misled people… co-workers, “close friends” and even a fiance about a multitude of things. There are people who want to help him but no one knows the whole story, all put together, so no one is really doing anything pro-active about this. He’s kind of a loner/floater but he’s affecting lots of people in various parts of his life, and has potentially been doing that for years.

The concern is what else will this person do in his life? Who else will he affect, and what is my/our responsibility in “intervening” into this person’s life? Morally, I/we want to do what is right.

Any more resources or advice is definitely welcomed. Thank you.
 
While I agree that a person might have a moral responsibility to disclose information, it would certainly depend on the circumstances.

If I receive a telephone call from a collection agency about someone I know, I really have no idea of all the facts involved. I can’t tell just from a voice on the phone even whether the caller has a right to the information. The loan agreement is between the parties who signed it; it doesn’t bind external parties in any way.

Now if I have reason to believe, for example, that my friend is involved in defrauding of creditors on a grand scale, or some criminal activity, that is more serious and would affect the way I would look at this.

If the caller is a person who is directly employed by the original creditor, they have a better right to the information. If the original creditor has turned the account over to a third-party collection agency, that agency may be working on a commission basis, keeping a percentage of whatever they manage to collect. They also might be more hard-nosed in their collection techniques.

(In some cases, a creditor might actually sell off ‘uncollectible’ debts to third parties for a small portion of their face value and be done with it; it’s then up to the buyer to attempt collection.)

In any case, with all the sources of information available, I think that a competent collector / skip-tracer will be able to locate the debtor without too much trouble.
 
How well do you know this person? Is he asking you to lie for him? If so, just tell him that while his affairs are none of your business, you will not lie for him or anyone.
 
I won’t have time to write toooo much right now - have to leave for appt. But I do know this person quite well, or thought I had. I personally have not received phone calls from the collection agency, but I knew he had received a message from them and has not done anything to rectify the situation in over 10 months. I am aware that some of his relatives are and have been receiving phone calls from the collections people. Some of these people can answer truthfully that they aren’t in contact with him because he will refuse to answer cel phone calls or let some of them know what his address is. He had all personal mail go to his place of work and now he is no longer employed either. It is highly possible that he has not used his real name at his apartment where he lives.

There are others of us who know his actual address. This is what I’m wondering about… at what point does say an anynomous person say “tip off” the collections people?

BTW, this is a school loan from an ivy league university they are collecting on.
 
Psalm 37:4-5:
I won’t have time to write toooo much right now - have to leave for appt. But I do know this person quite well, or thought I had. I personally have not received phone calls from the collection agency, but I knew he had received a message from them and has not done anything to rectify the situation in over 10 months. I am aware that some of his relatives are and have been receiving phone calls from the collections people. Some of these people can answer truthfully that they aren’t in contact with him because he will refuse to answer cel phone calls or let some of them know what his address is. He had all personal mail go to his place of work and now he is no longer employed either. It is highly possible that he has not used his real name at his apartment where he lives.

There are others of us who know his actual address. This is what I’m wondering about… at what point does say an anynomous person say “tip off” the collections people?

BTW, this is a school loan from an ivy league university they are collecting on.
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Under no circumstances are you or anyone else obligated to give the creditors information. It’s illegal for the creditors to call his relatives or friends if they know he doesn’t live there. If the creditors keep doing it, all that person has to do is tell them to quit calling or face a lawsuit. All the creditors have to do is wait for your friend to get a new job and they’ll find him.
 
Actually, it is illegal for them to disclose that they are a collection agency to anyone who answers the phone until they know for sure that they are talking to the debtor. If that is what they are doing, your friend can sue them for violating the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act.

He needs to send all collection agency’s a “partial cease and desist” letter (send certified mail with return receipt), which basically tells them they are not allowed to call him and may only correspond with him via mail. If they continue to call after receiving that letter, it is a violation of the FDCPA (he can sue for up to $1,000). This method will (should) keep the collectors from harassing his friends and relatives. Note to the friends and relatives: there is no law that says you have to talk to these people on the phone, you do not have to say one word to them. It is not your moral/legal responsiblity to help them track down a debtor. They have their ways of finding that information just fine without your help. They have no right putting you or other relatives in the middle of their business with this guy. Next time they call, immediately hang up and go on with your life. It is not your job to help them track anybody down.

There are methods he can use to negotiate a settlement (while salvaging his credit report also) to take care of his debts if he is having trouble paying them. There’s also methods he can use to prevent getting sued. I’m not advocating him blowing off his debt, but it sounds like he is in so deep and he’s panicking and doesn’t know how to handle the mess he’s in. You can direct him to these websites where he will find information to help clean up the mess he’s in. Once he realizes there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, he will probably stop running and hiding from the problem and start solving it instead.

creditinfocenter.com/

creditboards.com/forums/
 
BTW, do you know how old the debt is? When he first went delinquent on the loan, and whether it was a government loan or a private company? It may be past the statute of limitations for collecting on the debt, depending on which state he is in.
 
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masondoggy:
BTW, do you know how old the debt is? When he first went delinquent on the loan, and whether it was a government loan or a private company? It may be past the statute of limitations for collecting on the debt, depending on which state he is in.
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Oh yes, that is very christian advice. Stop paying your loan and hide out long enough and you are clear and free.

I don’t think its that easy.
 
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ByzCath:
Oh yes, that is very christian advice. Stop paying your loan and hide out long enough and you are clear and free.

I don’t think its that easy.
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That’s not what I’m telling him to do, why do you assume that I am? The guy’s family and friends are being harrassed, and let me tell you collection agencies will show THEM no mercy. They will continue to harrass innocent people until they are stopped. If the SOL is passed, it is an avenue to use to get the collection agencies off the backs of the wrong people! The OP asked for help for the friends/relatives who were being hounded for a debt that didn’t belong to them. I’m trying to help THEM.

IF the SOL is passed, it gives the debtor a way to get the collectors off his back so he can breath a little bit and then figure out a way to pay back what he owes (which I believe he should try to pay if he can). I DO NOT advocate walking away from a debt that he is capable of paying. But I also know how scary it is for people when they get in over their heads and are getting hounded by collectors. Which is why I responded and gave some information for the guy to help himself so he can go on with his life AND protect his family from harassment.
 
Thank you to everyone again, and still… this is very helpful advice. I can understand all the points given… the legal and the ethical/moral/Christian…

The part about what the collections agency is doing (calling relatives, etc) is interesting… I didn’t know they couldn’t do that. And the websites will be helpful for him, I’m sure.

Things are settling out in my brain as far as this goes, with all of your help 🙂 Thank you. I will continue to look into the legal aspects and then perhaps pursue a “supportive” role to my friend by providing the helpful links and a strong moral defense for getting on the right track.

There are some other issues he needs to deal with in his life and this part is compounding his problems. I was thinking that perhaps dealing with this part, taking a “tough love” approach and turning him in (however that would happen) could possibly force him to start taking action in that part of his life and the other parts as well… but maybe that’s not my responsibility, and that’s what I need to think about now. Use the advice you gave and go from there.

Thank you to all… very helpful, thorough and caring. Much appreciated…
 
Psalm 37:4-5:
There are some other issues he needs to deal with in his life and this part is compounding his problems. I was thinking that perhaps dealing with this part, taking a “tough love” approach and turning him in (however that would happen) could possibly force him to start taking action in that part of his life and the other parts as well… but maybe that’s not my responsibility, and that’s what I need to think about now. Use the advice you gave and go from there.
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I understand the “tough love” approach. But I think it’s not likely to work right now, as far as his debts problems are concerned. Even if you were to give the collectors his address, there really isn’t anything they can do but call and harrass him, and send threatening letters to his address. Nobody is going to go to his house physically and hunt him down, and he can’t be arrested for it either (unless of course there’s fraud involved). Trust me, the collectors WILL find his address eventually…But even if they do, there’s not a whole lot they can do to him. The main thing they can do to hurt him is sue him and get a judgement on him (if they haven’t already), that can further compound his problems because it hurts his credit even more and they could garnish his wages. (which is very damaging, depending what state he is in, they could very well garnish so much out of his check that it leaves him barely enough to meet other financial obligations…ouch) That’s what he really should be worried about, not so much the collectors finding him. His best bet is to send a cease and desist letter along with a “debt validation letter” (explained on those websites, for his own protection), that will get the collectors off his back long enough to find a couple jobs and save up some money, and then start negotiating a settlement with his creditors. I’ll bet once he is aware that there’s an honest way out of this, he’ll stop running and face the music…(not to mention he’ll find on those websites there are many many people who found themselves in the same scary, hopeless situation who dug themselves out of it and have a success story to tell.)

God bless you for being such a concerned friend. 👍
 
I became embroiled with collection agencies once, andf I learned a couple of valuable lessons you might want to pass on.
  1. All they want is their money. They aren’t “out to get you,” they don’t want to punish you. All they want is their money. Explain your circumstances, and tell them when you can begin to pay, and how much you can pay every month, and they will leave you alone, assuming that you keep your word.
  2. Sit down and budget. Figure out an amount that you can afford. Then offer them a payment of half that amount. This gives you wiggle room, since they will want to dicker it up.
    You might want to confront your friend with the fact that his defaulting on a student loan drives the interest rates up for other needy students. Also that defaulting on a loan is stealing.
 
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