Something I heard?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dove51
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dove51

Guest
I was at a NO Mass not too long ago and during the Consecration—at the pro multis bit—the priest said “…shed for you and for all Israel.” That kind of struck me. Is that really what is supposed to be said nowadays? It just sounded rather odd to hear at the time.
 
Your Priest must be afraid of being labeled an anti-semite. 😛
 
I was at a NO Mass not too long ago and during the Consecration—at the pro multis bit—the priest said “…shed for you and for all Israel.” That kind of struck me. Is that really what is supposed to be said nowadays? It just sounded rather odd to hear at the time.
Not only was it wrong, but it was actually* heretical* according to what those words actually man. The words “for you”, and “for many” in the consecration of the sine have a meaning of their own. One place you can find this talked about is the Catechism of Trent, under the section titled Explanation of the form used in the Consecration of the wine.

I personally would also argue (and if someone wants to challenge me, do so), that the Mass you attended was invalid. That means the “mass” was not a Mass at all. The Sacrifice did not take place.

You should avoid this politically correct heretical Preist like you would a Leper. Don’t try to “convert” him; avoid him. Go back to the FSSP Church. They have real Catholic Priests there. Stay after for coffee and donuts and get to know the people. That’s what you should do.
 
I was at a NO Mass not too long ago and during the Consecration—at the pro multis bit—the priest said “…shed for you and for all Israel.” That kind of struck me. Is that really what is supposed to be said nowadays? It just sounded rather odd to hear at the time.
LOL, he forgot about the rest of the world.
 
Not only was it wrong, but it was actually* heretical* according to what those words actually man. The words “for you”, and “for many” in the consecration of the sine have a meaning of their own. One place you can find this talked about is the Catechism of Trent, under the section titled Explanation of the form used in the Consecration of the wine.

I personally would also argue (and if someone wants to challenge me, do so), that the Mass you attended was invalid. That means the “mass” was not a Mass at all. The Sacrifice did not take place.

You should avoid this politically correct heretical Preist like you would a Leper. Don’t try to “convert” him; avoid him. Go back to the FSSP Church. They have real Catholic Priests there. Stay after for coffee and donuts and get to know the people. That’s what you should do.
Yes! Do not walk, run from the evil! Do not assume the priest made a mistake. Simply take it for granted that he is heretical and is seeking the ruin of souls! Do not question him or ask him why he used the term or where the term came from! He is obviously the spawn of Satan! Do not have faith that the Holy Spirit is present in that church or among those who attended that “NO MASS”, for it is clear from the priest’s particular use of the term you heard that the Holy Spirit has been banned from that place and God’s grace cannot compensate for whatever good intentions are held by the (dare I say it?) faithful, who attended that . . . gathering. Avoid the priest as you (and presumably Jesus himself) would avoid a leper! Lepers (and politically correct priests - whatever they may be) are obviously beyond redemption. Stay close to your coffee cup, do not look beyond your donut, huddle among the frozen! That’s what you should do!
 
Yes! Do not walk, run from the evil! Do not assume the priest made a mistake. Simply take it for granted that he is heretical and is seeking the ruin of souls! Do not question him or ask him why he used the term or where the term came from!
There is no excuse for changing the words of consecration, or tampering with the FORM of any of the sacraments. To do so is not only a mortal sin, but a sacrilege that probably invalidates the sacrament. Here’s a quote that all Catholics living today should memorize, especially since there are so many heretical and wicked Priests.

Dom Chautard, The Soul of the Apostolate: “If the priest is a saint (the saying goes) the people will be fervent; if the priest is fervent, the people will be pious; if the priest is pious, the people will at least be decent. But if the priest is only decent, the people will be godless. The spiritual generation is always one degree less intense in its life than those who beget it in Christ."

Those who think they need to stay in their local Church, where the Priest is a Liberal heretic, need to memorize that saying. What will most likely happen is not that the Priest will become fervant, but that those who stayed around in the hope of converting him will become “converted” themselves to his ways.

We have friends who are very fervent Catholics, but who attend a Church with a Liberal and heretical Priest. What has the effect been on them? Have they managed to convert the heretical Priest? No, the effect has been that these fervent Catholics are now totally Liberal - so much so that they were planning to vote for Obama until my wife starting sending them articles to read.

It is an illusion to believe there is any obligation to attend Mass with a Liberal Priest. On the contrary, you have a moral obligation to flee from such a wolf, since the hierarchy has failed in its duties of removing these wicked men.

Pray for them? Yes. Attend Church at their parish? No way.
 
There is no excuse for changing the words of consecration, or tampering with the FORM of any of the sacraments. To do so is not only a mortal sin, but a sacrilege that probably invalidates the sacrament. Here’s a quote that all Catholics living today should memorize, especially since there are so many heretical and wicked Priests.

Dom Chautard, The Soul of the Apostolate: “If the priest is a saint (the saying goes) the people will be fervent; if the priest is fervent, the people will be pious; if the priest is pious, the people will at least be decent. But if the priest is only decent, the people will be godless. The spiritual generation is always one degree less intense in its life than those who beget it in Christ."

Those who think they need to stay in their local Church, where the Priest is a Liberal heretic, need to memorize that saying. What will most likely happen is not that the Priest will become fervant, but that those who stayed around in the hope of converting him will become “converted” themselves to his ways.

We have friends who are very fervent Catholics, but who attend a Church with a Liberal and heretical Priest. What has the effect been on them? Have they managed to convert the heretical Priest? No, the effect has been that these fervent Catholics are now totally Liberal - so much so that they were planning to vote for Obama until my wife starting sending them articles to read.

It is an illusion to believe there is any obligation to attend Mass with a Liberal Priest. On the contrary, you have a moral obligation to flee from such a wolf, since the hierarchy has failed in its duties of removing these wicked men.

Pray for them? Yes. Attend Church at their parish? No way.
Of course there is an excuse for changing the words of consecration. It’s called being human and making a mistake. Shouldn’t we overlook such mistakes assuming the priest is doing the best he can. Now, if you believe the priest did not make a mistake and changed the words on purpose to make some sort of point, then you have the right to seek an explanation from him and ask him to return to the original words of the consecration or you will report him to his Bishop. If you wish to join a different parish with a different priest, then do so, but for goodness sakes, to assume the absolute worst of anyone without giving them the opportunity to explain themselves or apologize for any misunderstanding they have given, is not a very Christian attitude. I’m sure the good Dom Chautard, who knows something of sanctity, would agree.
 
Shouldn’t we overlook such mistakes assuming the priest is doing the best he can.
You would suggest that we overlook an error that makes that Mass illicit or potentially invalid?
Now, if you believe the priest did not make a mistake and changed the words on purpose to make some sort of point, then you have the right to seek an explanation from him and ask him to return to the original words of the consecration or you will report him to his Bishop.
As a caveat, I have no idea of the individual situation here, but given the fact that the priest added (rather than omitted) a word, this tends to suggest that he did so purposefully and knowingly as opposed to doing so accidentally.

Thus, I don’t think its such a great leap of faith to conclude that the priest did this intentionally and that the best answer, given the scenario, would be to simply leave. “Dialogue” with a priest who is knowingly engaging in serious error is not always the most prudent solution.
 
You would suggest that we overlook an error that makes that Mass illicit or potentially invalid?

As a caveat, I have no idea of the individual situation here, but given the fact that the priest added (rather than omitted) a word, this tends to suggest that he did so purposefully and knowingly as opposed to doing so accidentally.

Thus, I don’t think its such a great leap of faith to conclude that the priest did this intentionally and that the best answer, given the scenario, would be to simply leave. “Dialogue” with a priest who is knowingly engaging in serious error is not always the most prudent solution.
No, I’m suggesting that we not be so quick to jump to conclusions and assume the worst of someone who may have simply made a mistake. Perhaps the priest in this instance didn’t make a mistake, but it would seem natural to me to find out if this was the case before making any other decision. If the priest did make a mistake, then yes, we should be charitable and his mistake should be overlooked.
I disagree with the conclusion that, if the priest did change the words of consecration on purpose, the best course of action is to “simply leave.” No one “simply” leaves a parish community they have grown to love and claim as their own. The priest is not the sole reason I belong to a parish. There are friends and history to consider as well. One may leave if one chooses, but some communities are worth staying for. I’m also not saying the person should “dialogue” or debate with the priest. I said that the individual should find out if the priest made a mistake or not and, if not, ask the priest to return to the original words of consecration or contact the Bishop with the problem.
 
Yes! Do not walk, run from the evil! Do not assume the priest made a mistake. Simply take it for granted that he is heretical and is seeking the ruin of souls!

I would not take for granted that he is a heretic.

We are commanded by Christ to think the best, not the worst of our neighbor. How much more does this apply to thinking the best of Priests.

However, this WAS an unauthorized change.
 
Yes! Do not walk, run from the evil! Do not assume the priest made a mistake. Simply take it for granted that he is heretical and is seeking the ruin of souls!

I would not take for granted that he is a heretic.

We are commanded by Christ to think the best, not the worst of our neighbor. How much more does this apply to thinking the best of Priests.

However, this WAS an unauthorized change.
Yes, you’re right. It may have been a change made in error or it may have been one made purposefully. If you wish, you may read my previous posts to see the advice I have given regarding the incident.
 
yeah, I don’t like the sound of that. I would try to find a more traditional parish.

pax tecum
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top