Something Wrong with me?(regaurding Trad. Cath. spirituality)

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KaneKatholic

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Inside i have a deep fervour for Traditional catholic spirituality,
I am scrupulous and I have heard the views of traditionalism from all sides,
I recieve communion kneeling because I heard why it is a good thing and I prefer it because I find it a much more beautiful sign
I like saying common prayers in Latin because ,1.) i like saying common prayers and 2.)I like the language of latin, the imagery, the deep-spiritual quality
I see latin as a very romantic expressive language and that culture of older roman catholocism a very romantic one, if i could express it in one word it would be culminated in one,“Heart”, the Latin mass, every aspect of it, the incense, the kisses (physically and spiritually) the prayers *
I find the whole traditional style of doing things BETTER,simply,
Its just that every time I aproach this I feel something, that I try to hold within me, an inverse guilt.
As i mentioned earlier, Iam scupulous therefore anything that can happen ,does, My first thought, what if I was simply doing this because I wanted and it had nothing to do with God? …what if? What if? What if?. What if HE dosent want me to go in this direction??? why would I have to desire for this if I wasnt supposed to?? Okay KK lets consider this, Am I being prideful, mabey Am I doing this just for the way it looks or because it emphasizes greater the Holiness of Our Lord.Answer:I was compelled FIRST by reverance and something that looks better than what i was always given.
It has a real negative after taste though… I am very critical of all things non trad. I think I have good reason but i have learned to lossen up a bit
the suggestion has gotten worse and worse, everytime im in adoration, It becomes the center of prayer time. Its like the thing I dont want him to say i keep deep down as a fear, it becomes more and more prevelant as I sit. the thing I fear becomes a possiblity, HE is notorious for asking people to do things and believe things that ,at first seem silly, I have “calling” anxiety, one has to be called to certain things and Iam pridefully pushing myself in a direction I dont belong, thats what it FEELS like. What if and no reason to out-rule it becomes reality to the scrupulous KK.
My question is Whats wrong with me? Am I going crazy? feels like a tug of war Traditionalism vs. I shouldnt go Trad all the way???
In the words of spongebob “I AM SO CONFUSED!!!”*
 
Kane, you may feel guilt mostly because of your scrupulosity, which you have admitted us to in the past

You could pray each day

Lord…"Wash out my hidden faults
And from pride preserve your servant,
never let it dominate me
So shall I be above reproach, free from grave sin.” [Psalm 19:12-13]

And then pray as you want to, trusting God is keeping you safe from pride and error in your prayer.

God grant you peace. 🙂
 
Kane,

Pray, tell God your struggles and your desire to please him, and asks that he gives you peace in this area.

Perhaps you could speak to your Priest about it too.
 
I don’t think there is anything wrong with you, you happen to have a problem with scrupulosity. However, when you use terms like “going Trad all the way”, it sounds like you are joining a movement, or converting to something. IMO, that is the wrong perspective. Your first priority is that you are a Catholic Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ. The way you practice and appreciate the Catholic faith is in the “traditional” manner.

Start thinking of yourself as a Catholic first, and meditate on what that means, and consider the “traditional” way as your PREFERENCE, which is perfectly legitimate, and you will be able to appreciate better all the legitimate ways in which people practice their faith and avoid the judgmental attitude that SOMETIMES ( by no means all) is expressed by those who call themselves “Trad”. When you pray, forget about whether you are praying in a “traditional” manner, or not. Pray as the Spirit leads you, and focus on Jesus alone.
 
Do you attend the TLM exclusively?

If you do attend the TLM exclusively, do you have a church in your parish that offers a solemn OF? If you do, I would visit such a parish, which will help in opening up your mind and not focusing on being a Trad.

You could probably still kneel for communion, because a lot of those type of parishes offer both COTH and CITH.

It’s ironic that I’m recommending this, being that I’m such a promoter of the TLM. 😛

Because you’re scrupulous, I believe you need balance. Attending both forms might help.

And of course, prayer is key. Pray for humility to battle the pride.
 
TrueLight said:
Do you attend the TLM exclusively?

Because you’re scrupulous, I believe you need balance. Attending both forms might help.

And of course, prayer is key. Pray for humility to battle the pride.
Click to expand...
Not being aggresive TrueLight but, I’m not sure one would have to attend a solem OF to offset the TLM, the TLM is not something that knocks things off some sort of magical balance which then needs to be corrected.
Okay KK lets consider this, Am I being prideful, mabey Am I doing this just for the way it looks or because it emphasizes greater the Holiness of Our Lord.Answer:I was compelled FIRST by reverance and something that looks better than what i was always given.
It has a real negative after taste though… I am very critical of all things non trad. I think I have good reason but i have learned to lossen up a bit
the suggestion has gotten worse and worse, everytime im in adoration, It becomes the center of prayer time. Its like the thing I dont want him to say i keep deep down as a fear, it becomes more and more prevelant as I sit. the thing I fear becomes a possiblity, HE is notorious for asking people to do things and believe things that ,at first seem silly, I have “calling” anxiety, one has to be called to certain things and Iam pridefully pushing myself in a direction I dont belong, thats what it FEELS like. What if and no reason to out-rule it becomes reality to the scrupulous KK.
My question is Whats wrong with me
Click to expand...
First things first, God is not going to punish you for praying in latin, attending the TLM or being a ‘traditionalist’, if he did he’d have to punish half the Catholics in the world (over the course of history). Just follow where you believe God is leading you and if you make a mistake, God will show it to you and correct it. As it is written in the bible ‘Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? Yea, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: you are of more value than many sparrows’ The Gospel of Luke Chapter 12 verses 6-7.

Trust him and listen to your interior voice, as hard it is don’t worry or panic, God is our perfect sheperd, our perfect Guide as long as we trust in him, he will correct our mistakes and things will work out for his greater glory.

Hope that helps 🙂
 
jmj1984 said:
Not being aggresive TrueLight but, I’m not sure one would have to attend a solem OF to offset the TLM, the TLM is not something that knocks things off some sort of magical balance which then needs to be corrected.
Click to expand...
At this point, he has some real anxiety with self-identifying as a “Trad”.

He needs to attend both forms, find his identity in Christ and not form, and then slowly discern why the TLM is the best option for him.

I’m not a psychologist, but that’s my opinion.
 
TrueLight said:
At this point, he has some real anxiety with self-identifying as a “Trad”.

He needs to attend both forms, find his identity in Christ and not form, and then slowly discern why the TLM is the best option for him.

I’m not a psychologist, but that’s my opinion.
Click to expand...
I disagree but meh thats the beauty of life, we can disagree 😛
 
KaneKatholic said:
Inside i have a deep fervour for Traditional catholic spirituality,
I am scrupulous and I have heard the views of traditionalism from all sides,
I recieve communion kneeling because I heard why it is a good thing and I prefer it because I find it a much more beautiful sign
I like saying common prayers in Latin because ,1.) i like saying common prayers and 2.)I like the language of latin, the imagery, the deep-spiritual quality
I see latin as a very romantic expressive language and that culture of older roman catholocism a very romantic one, if i could express it in one word it would be culminated in one,“Heart”, the Latin mass, every aspect of it, the incense, the kisses (physically and spiritually) the prayers *
I find the whole traditional style of doing things BETTER,simply,
Its just that every time I aproach this I feel something, that I try to hold within me, an inverse guilt.
As i mentioned earlier, Iam scupulous therefore anything that can happen ,does, My first thought, what if I was simply doing this because I wanted and it had nothing to do with God? …what if? What if? What if?. What if HE dosent want me to go in this direction??? why would I have to desire for this if I wasnt supposed to?? Okay KK lets consider this, Am I being prideful, mabey Am I doing this just for the way it looks or because it emphasizes greater the Holiness of Our Lord.Answer:I was compelled FIRST by reverance and something that looks better than what i was always given.
It has a real negative after taste though… I am very critical of all things non trad. I think I have good reason but i have learned to lossen up a bit
the suggestion has gotten worse and worse, everytime im in adoration, It becomes the center of prayer time. Its like the thing I dont want him to say i keep deep down as a fear, it becomes more and more prevelant as I sit. the thing I fear becomes a possiblity, HE is notorious for asking people to do things and believe things that ,at first seem silly, I have “calling” anxiety, one has to be called to certain things and Iam pridefully pushing myself in a direction I dont belong, thats what it FEELS like. What if and no reason to out-rule it becomes reality to the scrupulous KK.
My question is Whats wrong with me? Am I going crazy? feels like a tug of war Traditionalism vs. I shouldnt go Trad all the way???
In the words of spongebob “I AM SO CONFUSED!!!”*

if you like saying the prayers in latin more power to you. there is nothing “magic” about latin however don’t feel you have to say a prayer in latin otherwise God won’t listen.
Click to expand...
 
bostonboy23 said:
if you like saying the prayers in latin more power to you. there is nothing “magic” about latin however don’t feel you have to say a prayer in latin otherwise God won’t listen.
Click to expand...
Need I remind you about the fact that Latin is much more exact than english is (and ever will be) english requires more words than latin does, and many forget the holy quality of latin,
ecclisastical latin is the church’s official language which makes it a holy language, all catholics should know their basic prayers in latin REGAURDLESS of their spirituality types, whether that be contemporary or traditional,… not “magic”, “holy”
dont get it twisted…latin is the trophy language of the church, in my opinion.
the language which spewed from lips that condemned, tortured, killed and mocked us, in the country where Our blood was spilled,Rome, once the center of hatred and evil ,was thrown down and it became the country that would spread Christ to the world, so yes latin is better in that sense, but it is interchangible and no one is obligated to use it just DO NOT LOSE REPECT for the the church nor her holy language.
 
KaneKatholic said:
Need I remind you about the fact that Latin is much more exact than english is (and ever will be) english requires more words than latin does, and many forget the holy quality of latin,
ecclisastical latin is the church’s official language which makes it a holy language, all catholics should know their basic prayers in latin REGAURDLESS of their spirituality types, whether that be contemporary or traditional,… not “magic”, “holy”
dont get it twisted…latin is the trophy language of the church, in my opinion.
the language which spewed from lips that condemned, tortured, killed and mocked us, in the country where Our blood was spilled,Rome, once the center of hatred and evil ,was thrown down and it became the country that would spread Christ to the world, so yes latin is better in that sense, but it is interchangible and no one is obligated to use it just DO NOT LOSE REPECT for the the church nor her holy language.
Click to expand...
I have to respectfully disagree with you on a few points. Latin is not the liturgical language of the entirety of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Rites use other liturgical languages. Latin is not in and of itself necessary to the Church. It is simply the language of our particular Rite. So I disagree with your assertion that “all Catholics should know their basic prayers in Latin.”

That said, you are right, it does deserve respect. I, for one, love Latin; it was my major in college. I applaud your obviously deep respect for the language, it is a wonderful thing and more Latin Rite Catholics should embrace the language like you do.

Going a bit further with this line of thought, I would suggest that it is even more important that any Catholic, irrespective of Rite, should know Koine Greek, the language of the New Testament.
 
In discerning this from that in one’s mental process, I found that Ignatian discernment of spirits was the key to working toward an answer. The Diary of St. Faustina and Fr. Michael Gaitley’s “Consoling the Heart of Jesus” show a very detailed study and union of Justice and Mercy, of rule and trust. We should not make trust the opposite of discernment, which comes to mind in some posts in other threads that immediately use the term “scrupulous” at any question about discerning an answer. It would seem to be a mistake to suppose that the “sweet yoke” or “light burden” (Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.) of Jesus is easy. It is sweet because of the spiritual joy and light due to grace, but getting there requires the “giving up” of one’s life. Not an easy task.
 
YOU WROTE: “Inside i have a deep fervour for Traditional catholic spirituality, I am scrupulous and I have heard the views of traditionalism from all sides.”
  • Not to sound unpleasant, but if you are suffering from scupulosity, I would say that the very LAST Church I would recommend would be a Traditionalist Church. Even some of the Traditionalist Churches that DO submit to the Pope’s authority can sometimes put a much harsher slant on the rules and regulations of Catholicism than the ordinary Roman Catholic Church.
I do not know if the Traditionalist Church you are attending is of this stricter sort. It may be just fine. I am certainly not trying to put down Traditonalism in any way. But I have observed that some of the tougher beliefs of Traditionalists can simply amplify one’s scrupulosity. Scrupulous people tend to get very apprehensive and upset when there are more rules or strictures to confine them. Such people need to take a break from rules and strictures in order to relax.

I would personally advise you to attend the ordinary (English) Catholic Mass, and establish communication with a knowledgeable priest who can advise you in the area of your scrupulosity. This may be difficult. But for a scrupulous person, it is essential. Talking to a priest a gentle, yet accurate, understanding of the Church, can help remove some of the bad reasoning that causes scrupulosity in the first place.

YOU WROTE: “I have “calling” anxiety, one has to be called to certain things and I am pridefully pushing myself in a direction I don’t belong, thats what it FEELS like. What if and no reason to out-rule it becomes reality to the scrupulous.”
  • There is no reason for anxiety here. The Roman Catholic Church specifically teaches the Biblical dictum to “test every spirit.” If you feel that your “calling” to attend Traditionalist Masses is not an authentic calling, then it probably is not. Likewise, many people who feel “called” to become Catholic priests often do not make it. The Church may find reason not to ordain them. It is nobody’s RIGHT to become a priest. Just as it is nobody’s RIGHT to have any particular calling.Again, the Catholic Church’s advice here is to “test every spirit.” Such a calling as the one you describe may turn out to simply be false. This is no reason for worry. Put this out of your mind.
YOU WROTE: “Am I doing this just for the way it looks or because it emphasizes greater the Holiness of Our Lord. Answer: I was compelled FIRST by reverance and something that looks better than what i was always given. It has a real negative after taste though… I am very critical of all things non trad. I think I have good reason but I have learned to loosen up a bit.”
  • I advise you to try and relax in the area of religion. There is certainly such a thing as “too much religion.” It can be an excess, just as much as anything else. Too much indulgence in the “things of the Lord” could easily cross the line into spiritual gluttony.
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

“St. John of the Cross, in his work “The Dark Night of the Soul” (I, vi), dissects what he calls spiritual gluttony. He explains that it is the disposition of those who, in prayer and other acts of religion, are always in search of sensible sweetness; they are those who “will feel and taste God, as if he were palpable and accessible to them not only in Communion but in all their other acts of devotion.” This he declares is a very great imperfection and productive of great evils.”

newadvent.org/cathen/06590a.htm
  • I am not saying you have reached this point. But too much emphasis on religious devotion may eventually cross the line into sin. This is something to consider.
 
(Continued from above)

YOU WROTE: “the suggestion has gotten worse and worse, everytime im in adoration, It becomes the center of prayer time. Its like the thing I dont want him to say i keep deep down as a fear, it becomes more and more prevelant as I sit. the thing I fear becomes a possiblity, HE is notorious for asking people to do things and believe things that ,at first seem silly.”
  • It may also do to relax in how much prayer you do. This is another thing scrupulous people tend to worry about. Adoration, for example, can be beautiful, but it is not necessary for salvation. Adoration is something known as a Devotion. And no Roman Catholic is required to pray Devotions. Ever. They are total extras, and are not part of the Deposit of Faith. You don’t have to pray Devotions to go to Heaven.
I would recommend you read a website called “Scrupulous Anonymous.” This is a site run by the Redemptorist Order of the Roman Catholic Church. It is designed specifically to help Catholics suffering from needless anxieties about their salvation, or about any other aspect of Church teaching. The information there is very accurate and precise. It may help to relieve some of the anxieties you are feeling.

mission.liguori.org/newsletters/scrupanon.htm
 
(Continued from above)

Also, here is an article from the “Scrupulous Anonymous” website about the Catholic understanding of prayer. Many Catholics worry excessively that they are not praying “enough” during a given day, not concentrating enough on prayer, not being “devout” enough when they pray. This can be extraordinarily stressful on us. This article is about the virtues about praying to God WITHOUT words, or even without effort.

mission.liguori.org/newslette…ve/SA_0111.pdf

======================================== ======================================== =====

**The Gift of Silence
**
The following is adapted from Finding Your Hidden Treasure: The Way of Silent Prayer by Benignus O’Rourke (© 2010 Liguori Publications).

Some time ago an elderly lady complained to me that she could no longer pray. She said, “I come here to church after my shopping and sit here all peaceful and quiet. But I can’t pray like I used to.”

I tried to suggest that perhaps sitting there all peaceful and quiet was prayer. Maybe it was a gift God was offering her at this stage of her life. But she wasn’t convinced. Prayer for her meant keeping her mind on the words, battling with distractions, concentrating. “Sitting there all peaceful and quiet” seemed like laziness and failure.

What my parishioner was discovering, in fact, was one of God’s loveliest gifts, the purest form of prayer. She rejected it because it wasn’t what she’d been taught. And she’s not alone. Many people who come to the retreat house share her anxiety about praying.

Many of us remember being taught that prayer is a lifting of our minds and hearts to God. This teaching can lay a heavy burden on us. We feel we must make an effort to speak to God—to praise him, to give thanks, to ask for help. We normally use words, thoughts, and images and feel we have to keep our minds fixed on what we’re saying.

But at times we cannot find the words. The well-known prayers that usually inspire and comfort us strike no chord in our hearts. We may be singing God’s praises while our hearts are heavy or empty. And our hearts become heavier because our feelings do not match the words. We are perhaps tired of words, anyway. Tired of asking God in words that have no life. Tired of thinking about God. Tired of being talked to about God. Tired of saying prayers that may be beautiful in themselves but are not bringing God closer to us.

Then, perhaps it is best to simplify our prayers and follow the age-old advice to go from many words to few words, from few words to one word, and from one word into silence.

Sometimes when we pray, our words—any words—can be barriers. They come between us and God. The deepest communion with God comes through silence.​

  • Again, check out the “Scrupulous Anonymous” website. I cannot recommend it more highly.
mission.liguori.org/newsletters/scrupanon.htm
 
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