Sometimes I don't Understand The Hostility

[Starwynd]

When I was a child and I was first learning about Jesus and the Bible, I would often get very hostile rections from many people who considered themselves Christians. Even as an adult I still get those same hostile reactions, and I’ve met Christians from all over the country. I’ve always ahd an inquisitive mind towards things, and I would often ask simple questions about God and the Bible.

For example, when I was fifteen, one of the things that I was taught growing up was that “Satan can not do anything without God’s permission” and indeed people were very proud of that belief. So one day my friend and I were talking about just that. So when he said that I thought for a minute, then asked;

“Then wouldn’t that mean that God is responsible for all evil in the world?”

And instead of trying to give a thoughtful answer, he hit me and we got into a fight over it.

When I explained the situation to my mother, she got upset over it and made me apologise to him and his mother, who both of them called me a retard for asking such a question.

And that is the kind of hostility I grew up with. Whenever I asked that kind of question, I was not trying to be malicious in any way shape or form. It was something that simply occured to me and I asked out of sheer curiosity. But it was also a logical asumption. After all, we hold people who are in the same situation, why couldn’t God be responsible if He will not let Satan do anything on his own?

And yet, even as an adult when I ask questions like that, I still get the same kind of hostile reactions. I may not get hit anymore, but I still get insulted to no end sometimes.

So I’m thankful for boards like these to the members of this board who do try to help me understand in a thoughtful way. That is something that seems to be rare anymore. I just wish I would’ve had something like this when I was I kid. But that was long before the internet was even around.

And I don’t understand the hostility at all.

 

[bogeydogg]

Yes that would make God responsible for evil.

Good question.

There is an answer but its long.

I think the hostility stems from people who are trying to understand the incomprehensible, and they feel a need to fit God into a box that they can understand. This is why Calvinism, Arminianism, da da da are so popular because they give simple answers to really hard questions. And anytime you ask someone to explain WHY they believe what they believe, you open the box they keep God in and that makes them really uncomfortable.

 

[guanophore]

So I’m thankful for boards like these to the members of this board who do try to help me understand in a thoughtful way. That is something that seems to be rare anymore. I just wish I would’ve had something like this when I was I kid. But that was long before the internet was even around.

And I don’t understand the hostility at all.

I hope you continue to have a good experience here, because there is some hostility around here too once in a while (speaking as one of the sources).

It is human nature to be narrow minded and intolerant.

“The LORD saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.” Gen 6:5-6

May God save us from ourselves!

ps, your question about God being responsible for all the evil is an excellent question.

 

[Reepicheep]

Starwynd:
God’s blessing on you for being willing to question and think.
God’s blessing for not being stopped by the angry response of some.
May you find the truths you seek, I pray in the name of Jesus.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

When I was a child and I was first learning about Jesus and the Bible, I would often get very hostile rections from many people who considered themselves Christians. Even as an adult I still get those same hostile reactions, and I’ve met Christians from all over the country. I’ve always ahd an inquisitive mind towards things, and I would often ask simple questions about God and the Bible.

For example, when I was fifteen, one of the things that I was taught growing up was that “Satan can not do anything without God’s permission” and indeed people were very proud of that belief. So one day my friend and I were talking about just that. So when he said that I thought for a minute, then asked;

“Then wouldn’t that mean that God is responsible for all evil in the world?”

And instead of trying to give a thoughtful answer, he hit me and we got into a fight over it.

When I explained the situation to my mother, she got upset over it and made me apologise to him and his mother, who both of them called me a retard for asking such a question.

And that is the kind of hostility I grew up with. Whenever I asked that kind of question, I was not trying to be malicious in any way shape or form. It was something that simply occured to me and I asked out of sheer curiosity. But it was also a logical asumption. After all, we hold people who are in the same situation, why couldn’t God be responsible if He will not let Satan do anything on his own?

And yet, even as an adult when I ask questions like that, I still get the same kind of hostile reactions. I may not get hit anymore, but I still get insulted to no end sometimes.

So I’m thankful for boards like these to the members of this board who do try to help me understand in a thoughtful way. That is something that seems to be rare anymore. I just wish I would’ve had something like this when I was I kid. But that was long before the internet was even around.

And I don’t understand the hostility at all.

If you can get the EWTN program, Web of Faith, you will see that people ask those very same questions of two priests, who answer them in detail.

I love that show. It’s helped educate me far better than my RCIA program.

 

[Copperman]

It would be a better world if people could respectfully exchange ideas. When people can’t withstand opposing arguments they often get a little prickly. It really isn’t necessary.

 

[CentralFLJames]

It is not always necessary or relevant to understand the whys and what nots of hostility. Sometimes hostility is simply a manifestation of tension between two incompatible natures and its what happens when they come together.

Good & Evil are not compatible in the absolute sense nor in the relative-degree of sense. After all we all live in a world made up of people who all know to greater or lessor degree, and unequally, both good and evil. There will always be a tension between the two tendencies when they are in close proximity. Evil in particular seeks to finds it own pair and its own level and very often wins out with those who are undisciplined.This is not to say that anyone in your example was evil (or good).

We all carry the effects of sinful nature and are all less than perfectly good. Even when in a state of grace, due to original sin, we still have imperfect ability to express and communicate beyond the limits of our own intrinsic human talents and abilities. All we can do is use discipline and good sense to be tolerant and patient of the differences in each other - both morally, intellectually and spiritually.

The greater one’s God given gifts of vitures and capacities for empathy, compassion and patience the more one is obliged to yield to and suffer the lessor person - “to much that is given much is expected”. Ironically and counter-intuitively the greatest potential for conflicts of the most severe degree arise NOT when the greatest differences in abilities come into proximity but rather when the greatest commonality of strengths or weaknesses are paired in proximity. Or I should say this is my observation and it may not hold up in the absolute sense. But it would seem, ironically, a very good person who is very talented will have the largest conflict with her closest peers since each sees themselves in the other and through pride and desire to be superior competes. Thus Satan, as high as he was sought to look up to see God eye to eye rather than look below Him to see how much he was elevated among others. So, the same is true in the converse case of pairing relatively morally depraved people of similar low standing with each other - since each will compete to reach the lowest common denominator to “under-perform” and debase one below the other.

When potential for sparks are high and the expectation for change is low (apparent conviction) and when the only compromise for peace entails that one must yield moral ground while the other stands firm, in this case it is better to avoid confrontation or expect to self-sacrifice and take abuse without offering a compromise. Avoidance is most often the better part of valor.

In these cases, there are often not many more personal options other than prayer for understanding. Clearly, God sets the absolute standards and can bring all to a higher common denominator by making us bend our knee and lower our heads to the common ground of humility. That’s win-win-win.

I should take my own advise more frequently but sometimes I think all humans just like a good fight. And some of us shadow box to an exhausting draw then elect to run away to fight another day. Some days are better than others but at the end of the day we are all exhausted and need sleep…

James

 

[Christy_Beth]

Questions are a main source of learning. At least, in my opinion. But maybe before you ask a question, stop to think of how you ask it. Sometimes, the way we put things can cause hostility in others. They feel that they and/or their beliefs are being attacked, so they attack back.

As far as God being responsible for evil, He didn’t create the evil. The evil is allowed by Him to a certain degree. It comes from the free choice He has given us. Yes, He created all things. But He gives us all a free choice of serving Him or going against HIm. Going against His will is what causes evil.

 

[strngrnrth]

Some people have a different idea of what a question is. I don’t understand it myself. I get that reaction a lot from people of all beliefs and attitudes, that asking about something they believe is an attack on them personally . I don’t know what to do either. i just usually keep saying things like, “I asked a question. Please answer my question.” in a calm voice, which I know doesn’t work much of the time. I don’t understand why not. I think it would work on me. But then I hardly ever freak out over a question to begin with so who can say what they’re thinking.

 

[Claudius]

When I was a child and I was first learning about Jesus and the Bible, I would often get very hostile rections from many people who considered themselves Christians. Even as an adult I still get those same hostile reactions, and I’ve met Christians from all over the country. I’ve always ahd an inquisitive mind towards things, and I would often ask simple questions about God and the Bible.

For example, when I was fifteen, one of the things that I was taught growing up was that “Satan can not do anything without God’s permission” and indeed people were very proud of that belief. So one day my friend and I were talking about just that. So when he said that I thought for a minute, then asked;

“Then wouldn’t that mean that God is responsible for all evil in the world?”

And instead of trying to give a thoughtful answer, he hit me and we got into a fight over it.

When I explained the situation to my mother, she got upset over it and made me apologise to him and his mother, who both of them called me a retard for asking such a question.

And that is the kind of hostility I grew up with. Whenever I asked that kind of question, I was not trying to be malicious in any way shape or form. It was something that simply occured to me and I asked out of sheer curiosity. But it was also a logical asumption. After all, we hold people who are in the same situation, why couldn’t God be responsible if He will not let Satan do anything on his own?

And yet, even as an adult when I ask questions like that, I still get the same kind of hostile reactions. I may not get hit anymore, but I still get insulted to no end sometimes.

So I’m thankful for boards like these to the members of this board who do try to help me understand in a thoughtful way. That is something that seems to be rare anymore. I just wish I would’ve had something like this when I was I kid. But that was long before the internet was even around.

And I don’t understand the hostility at all.

Here is where the hostility comes from. Catholics are Christians. We suffer and die to do as Christ commands of us because we accept him as our King.

Outside of Catholicism, and even inside, there is a force that wants to destroy us. They kill us, maim us and make us watch as our children are set on fire and die.

This makes people hostile.

You have to realize that Catholics go about our business of trying to be holy and do the right thing and we are damned for it by protestants, muslims and athiest. Even the Buddhist will give us no rest if they are given power over us. Hindus are chopping off the hands of priest in northern India.

This makes people hostile.

We should treat people with charity, it is true. But we are human and have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Yet, when you go around telling people that God is responsible for all the Evil in the world we are not going to sit there and have a polite conversation with you about it, we will see you as working for the devil and will suspect you of comming to chop off our body parts in the dead of the night.

God made the world, but that does not mean that if evil is found in the world that God is responsible for it. That conclusion in reality is you stating that you hate God and the next step in that thought is you want to kill Catholics or at least start accusing us of not being Christians.

God prevents a lot of evil, but he allows some who choose evil to do it. God did not choose the evil, the evil person did, God just allowed it to happen. Get it right.

 

[crowonsnow]

When I was a child and I was first learning about Jesus and the Bible, I would often get very hostile rections from many people who considered themselves Christians. Even as an adult I still get those same hostile reactions, and I’ve met Christians from all over the country. I’ve always ahd an inquisitive mind towards things, and I would often ask simple questions about God and the Bible.

For example, when I was fifteen, one of the things that I was taught growing up was that “Satan can not do anything without God’s permission” and indeed people were very proud of that belief. So one day my friend and I were talking about just that. So when he said that I thought for a minute, then asked;

“Then wouldn’t that mean that God is responsible for all evil in the world?”

And instead of trying to give a thoughtful answer, he hit me and we got into a fight over it.

When I explained the situation to my mother, she got upset over it and made me apologise to him and his mother, who both of them called me a retard for asking such a question.

And that is the kind of hostility I grew up with. Whenever I asked that kind of question, I was not trying to be malicious in any way shape or form. It was something that simply occured to me and I asked out of sheer curiosity. But it was also a logical asumption. After all, we hold people who are in the same situation, why couldn’t God be responsible if He will not let Satan do anything on his own?

And yet, even as an adult when I ask questions like that, I still get the same kind of hostile reactions. I may not get hit anymore, but I still get insulted to no end sometimes.

So I’m thankful for boards like these to the members of this board who do try to help me understand in a thoughtful way. That is something that seems to be rare anymore. I just wish I would’ve had something like this when I was I kid. But that was long before the internet was even around.

And I don’t understand the hostility at all.

Let me trot out a few of my favorite horses.

First of all, people are what they do. A person says lots of things but the difference between what a person says and what a person does is what a person does. That’s what people believe, what they do. Whether those actions are conscious or subconscious doesn’t change that.

Secondly, people are hostile at times whether religious or not. I’ve encountered hostility but try not to make a sweeping generalization about a person or group of persons based on specific incidents. And we should never judge any individual person based on a group identity we’ve somehow formed. That’s just being prejudiced.

Also, wisdom is the knowledge we’ve gained from our experiences. When someone asks you questions that might lend themselves to a hostile response, your behavior is the best teacher. Remember the hostility that you encountered and just do better given the same opportunity. You can’t be nonchalant or cool or cavalier in the face of danger, but you can remain confident and choose to be non-aggressive.

Finally, and most importantly, a person’s religion or lack thereof can serve the same purpose in life. Those paths we choose or choose to remain upon should somehow serve a greater good than to reward self. As Ghandi said, “Become the change you seek.”

 

[Micholos]

The real question, isn’t whether or not God is evil, but is the fact that He choose to give us freewill, evil?

The answer, of course is no, pure in simple. Love, we’ve all had love of some kind during our lifetimes, and God is love, so we all know what it means, sometimes love can drive people insane, and in other instances people can tolerate anything because of it.

God allowed us to choose to love Him freely, this is the greatest gift we have. When a person with excellent parents goes in the wrong direction, we don’t go around and say, “look at the evil they have created!” No we say,“look at how far that person has strayed!”

Evil is in mens hearts, who choose to love anything other than Love itself. Thus Love does not create evil, but loving something evil does.

Objection #2

“But God created everything on earth, and some things can be used for evil purposes.”

Only if that something is misused, or invented to be used for evil’s sake.

 

[Jack_245814]

Yes it upsets me very much as well. I see it from all sides: atheists (open-minded my foot!), fellow Christians, fellow Catholics, Jews, Muslims . . . all sorts. It really bothers me.

 

[Swan]

Yes it upsets me very much as well. I see it from all sides: atheists (open-minded my foot!), fellow Christians, fellow Catholics, Jews, Muslims . . . all sorts. It really bothers me.

I’ve thought about this a lot, and not just in terms of religion. The conclusion I’ve come to is that there are issues (different ones with different people) that these folks see as being so much a part of who they are that sometimes they view inquiry as a form of attack on them personally. They are unable to separate the two (issue and self) because that issue plays a big part in how they see themselves. Which is why religion and politics are often very incendiary topics. I try very hard to understand this when dealing with folks who hold differing opinions than my own because it is the only way to have a dialog. Unfortunatly, sometimes they (and, honestly, me too) are unable to rein in our tempers in the emotional heat of the moment. It takes a lot of patience and a willingness to try and see the other person’s point of view. I try to find some common ground as well. Timing is pretty important too.

 

[crowonsnow]

Which is why religion and politics are often very incendiary topics.

I coached athletics for many years. Losing is an insult to many people, even when their kids lose, not them.

There is nothing in religion that theaches the equivalent of good sportsmanship. Politics has a bit of it, but not enough. This may explain much of the hostility.

 

[davidv]

I coached athletics for many years. Losing is an insult to many people, even when their kids lose, not them.

There is nothing in religion that theaches the equivalent of good sportsmanship. Politics has a bit of it, but not enough. This may explain much of the hostility.

Really?

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Mt 5:44

Sounds even better than “sportsmanship” to me.

 

[Nino]

well for a start…how do you know when you are …‘insulted’etc that the person doing this act is in truth…a "Christian’ you infer only 'christians’are mean and thoughtless…no one else is…so in a non-christian school for example…you dont have to lock your locker? Consider the movies…Hollyweird has always been anti-christian…even a so called good movie…Going my way…released in 46 the priest…Bing Crosby,has to save the parish because the old priest is senile and out of it…Bing is called by his first name…as in Father Bud…this was way ahead of its time…Christians are usually pictured in hollyweird flicks as hypocrites,cowards and even have bad breath…while free thinkers are reasonable and have a sense of humor. We are touchy for the world hates us as it hated our Founder…a Man who tried to lead us out of darkness into the light of freedom,he was for equality for women,hated prejudice,pushed individual responsiblility over group think …well you get the pic…consider…the free thinkers you like and respect always push for anything goes.hey its only a film…lighten up…but when Mel Gibsons Passion was released all hell (I chose my word carefully)broke loose…riots,a second holocaust etc was in evitable etc…and so it goes…we are not so bad…we change our socks once a month whether we need it or not…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

When I was a child and I was first learning about Jesus and the Bible, I would often get very hostile rections from many people who considered themselves Christians. Even as an adult I still get those same hostile reactions, and I’ve met Christians from all over the country. I’ve always ahd an inquisitive mind towards things, and I would often ask simple questions about God and the Bible.

For example, when I was fifteen, one of the things that I was taught growing up was that “Satan can not do anything without God’s permission” and indeed people were very proud of that belief. So one day my friend and I were talking about just that. So when he said that I thought for a minute, then asked;

“Then wouldn’t that mean that God is responsible for all evil in the world?”

And instead of trying to give a thoughtful answer, he hit me and we got into a fight over it.

When I explained the situation to my mother, she got upset over it and made me apologise to him and his mother, who both of them called me a retard for asking such a question.

And that is the kind of hostility I grew up with. Whenever I asked that kind of question, I was not trying to be malicious in any way shape or form. It was something that simply occured to me and I asked out of sheer curiosity. But it was also a logical asumption. After all, we hold people who are in the same situation, why couldn’t God be responsible if He will not let Satan do anything on his own?

And yet, even as an adult when I ask questions like that, I still get the same kind of hostile reactions. I may not get hit anymore, but I still get insulted to no end sometimes.

So I’m thankful for boards like these to the members of this board who do try to help me understand in a thoughtful way. That is something that seems to be rare anymore. I just wish I would’ve had something like this when I was I kid. But that was long before the internet was even around.

And I don’t understand the hostility at all.

About your question:​

• “Then wouldn’t that mean that God is responsible for all evil in the world?”

• AFAICS evil is merely a fact, & one which cannot be explained. If it made sense, it might (in principle at least) be explicable; but it does not make sense. Which is not the same as saying there is no answer to it.

 

[crowonsnow]

Really?

Sounds even better than “sportsmanship” to me.

Hi davidv,

There’s lots that “sounds” good. Putting it into practice is a different matter. Unfortunately many people define themselves by having enemies, defining themselves by what they are not instead of what they are. They don’t love their enemies, they just love having them. Maybe it’s just a way to rationalize the hostility. Don’t know.

 

[Oakleaf]

Don’t worry. There was once a little pudgy kid from Naples named Thomas who went around asking too many questions and getting one everyone’s nerve. He wrote long books of logical questions and answers on tough theological questions. Then one day he had an inner experience of God and said all those thousands of pages of text were worth nothing.

He was considered a borderline heretic by his peers and Church superiors of his day, and has been given the nickname “The Dumb Ox.” Posterity knows him Thomas Aquinas.