Song of Songs 7:2-:3

[runnerryan]

I’m giving some talks in the next couple months where I’ll be talking about what the bible has to teach us about sexuality, marriage, and celibacy.

I’m going to be speaking about the Song of Songs and the degree to which it is not allegorical, although I certainly accept that one of the ways in which that books speaks to us is allegorically about Christ’s relationship to the Church.

When it comes to the non allegorical reading of this book there are some issues when it comes to the translation of 7:2-:3. I’m delibarately wording this very vaguely. Those who know the issues I’m referring to understand why. Does anyone know any commentaries or any other resources that would help me to discuss the best possible translation of certain key words in these verses?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I’m giving some talks in the next couple months where I’ll be talking about what the bible has to teach us about sexuality, marriage, and celibacy.

I’m going to be speaking about the Song of Songs and the degree to which it is not allegorical, although I certainly accept that one of the ways in which that books speaks to us is allegorically about Christ’s relationship to the Church.

When it comes to the non allegorical reading of this book there are some issues when it comes to the translation of 7:2-:3. I’m delibarately wording this very vaguely. Those who know the issues I’m referring to understand why. Does anyone know any commentaries or any other resources that would help me to discuss the best possible translation of certain key words in these verses?

**The imagery is unremarkable - just be grateful it’s not a “sacred marriage” song It is not an allegory - though it can be applied allegorically. **​

 

[agapewolf]

I’m giving some talks in the next couple months where I’ll be talking about what the bible has to teach us about sexuality, marriage, and celibacy.

I’m going to be speaking about the Song of Songs and the degree to which it is not allegorical, although I certainly accept that one of the ways in which that books speaks to us is allegorically about Christ’s relationship to the Church.

When it comes to the non allegorical reading of this book there are some issues when it comes to the translation of 7:2-:3. I’m delibarately wording this very vaguely. Those who know the issues I’m referring to understand why. Does anyone know any commentaries or any other resources that would help me to discuss the best possible translation of certain key words in these verses?

I took both week 1 and 2 classes of Theology of the Body from Christopher West (the week long head and heart immersion course). It took Christopher until middle of the second week in order to give enough background and cushion for him to discuss these verses thoroughly. We did talk about them throughout, but the heart of it was discussed in the middle/end of week 2. Maybe request a study guide from the institute, attend the classes, or read theology of the body. (His new book “heaven’s song” goes into detail about this)/

 

[tobinatorstark]

Have you tried the Navarre

 

[Nita]

I’m aware of 3 allegorical applications for the Song of Songs:

1. the Church
2. Mary
3. each individual soul

I have a large book (571 pages) titled “The Song of Songs” - A Mystical Exposition. Author is Fr. Juan G. Arintero, O.P. He goes thru the book verse by verse. Tan is the publisher.

The Geo. Haydock has a few footnotes. Book is called Canticle of Canticles in the Douay. haydock1859.tripod.com/id330.html

 

[COPLAND_3]

Here is a link that is bookmarked to something similar to the Ancient Christian Commentary, but this is called “Ancient Christian Commentators.” books.google.com/books?id=nW8O9KhNOucC&printsec=frontcover&dq=ancient+christian+commentary+song+of+songs&sig=X0ul2SLk6WT5ooNHmY2TNU1ZVm4#PPA253,M1

I have a translation of it from the Dead Sea Scrolls if you would like some scanned images, it has variant readings among the DSS manuscripts as well.

If you need any help concerning the ancient versions such as the Peshitta, LXX, MT, Church Father citations, or any others then just let me know, I’d be happy to help anyway I can.

 

[runnerryan]

I’ve got all the Navarre OT volumes and they’re generally very helpful, but in this case they didn’t address the guestions I had.

I did a little bit of further reading and the New Jerome Biblical Commentary, which I usually find much less helpful than the Navarre, actually provided some discussion of the issues I was trying to figure out.

Have you tried the Navarre

 

[Ron_Conte]

I understand what you are referring to. The Latin has this wording:

{7:2} Quam pulchri sunt gressus tui in calceamentis, filia principis! Iuncturæ femorum tuorum, sicut monilia, quæ fabricata sunt manu artificis.
{7:2} Chorus to Bride: How beautiful are your footsteps in shoes, O daughter of a ruler! The joints of your thighs are like jewels, which have been fabricated by the hand of an artist.

{7:3} **Umbilicus **tuus crater tornatilis, numquam indigens poculis. Venter tuus sicut acervus tritici, vallatus liliis.
{7:3} Your **navel **is a round bowl, never lacking in curvature. Your abdomen is like a bundle of wheat, surrounded with lilies.

The 1590 Pope Sixtus V, and the 1592, 93, and 98 Clementine editions all have the same text. ‘juncturae’ clearly refers to a joint, which could be the knees, or more generally the lap. The NAB on this point loosely rephrases this as ‘your rounded thighs’.

The word ‘umbilicus’ clearly refers to the naval. The NAB has navel. All the 1590 to 1598 editions have ‘umbilicus’ [navel].

See my verse by verse commentary on the Song of Songs:
sacredbible.org/studybible/OT-24_Song.htm