Songs About/To Mary

[Scardinoz]

My wife and I are going through RCIA so, yes, this is one of those “I’m struggling with…” questions. Bear with me here.

We went to mass on January 1st (Mary, Mother of God) and they had hymns directed to Mary. Both of us grew up in protestant churches and, in these churches, if you sang it was either to God, about God, or about following God.

One song made mention of lifting up our praises to Mary. We were able to see a clear distinction between praises you would give to Mary, Joseph, or any other noteworthy person deserving of praise.

Another song referred to Mary as the “morning star” when another part of the mass used the same phrase to identify Jesus. This was more difficult to tackle and required some research on my part to find that “morning star” meant “bringer of light” and, as I’m sure anyone can agree, Mary brought forth much more than light: she brought the Light.

My wife and I have been in RCIA for a while (Easter vigil, anyone?) but both of these issues would have been huge obstacles for any protestant or fallen-away Catholic that had visited the Church for any reason.

That said, even after we overcame these obstacles there was still this issue: Shouldn’t songs sung at Mass be focused on God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit?

I consider that Mary is only great because of what God used her for and did through her so if we honor her we are giving further praise to God and his perfect will.

However, my wife had an interesting perspective. Though the scenerio is not a perfect comparison, if a protestant church tried to lead a congregation through a song during a service about Martin Luther and his admirable bravery during the reformation it would be a scandal. Shouldn’t Catholics, who are actually preparing to physically receive the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ, be all the more focused on Him?

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[aspirant]

Shouldn’t songs sung at Mass be focused on God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit?

Good songs about creatures, like Mary, really are focused on God, their Creator, whether explicitly or implicitly.

I consider that Mary is only great because of what God used her for and did through her so if we honor her we are giving further praise to God and his perfect will.

Yes. An artist is not offended by praise for his art. Just the opposite!

if a protestant church tried to lead a congregation through a song during a service about Martin Luther and his admirable bravery during the reformation it would be a scandal.

Why? I am a Catholic, so I think Luther did a lot of harm, whether intentionally or unintentionally. But if one sincerely believes Luther to be this admirable and heroic figure, bringing about real good for people, I can’t imagine why that person would have a problem with it.

 

[Scardinoz]

Why? I am a Catholic, so I think Luther did a lot of harm, whether intentionally or unintentionally. But if one sincerely believes Luther to be this admirable and heroic figure, bringing about real good for people, I can’t imagine why that person would have a problem with it.

That highlights perfectly the difference in perspective between Catholics and protestants. A protestant would say there is no room to be singing about anyone but God.

 

[aspirant]

That highlights perfectly the difference in perspective between Catholics and protestants. A protestant would say there is no room to be singing about anyone but God.

Not all Protestants would have a problem with songs about people they consider heroes of faith.

 

[kage_ar]

I wish that early in MY conversion process someone had handed me a copy of Fulton Sheen’s “The World’s First Love”. I wrestled with Mary for years.

The Sheen book first, then Hahn’s “Hail, Holy Queen” - do yourself a favor, order them today!

 

[FrCorey]

My wife and I are going through RCIA so, yes, this is one of those “I’m struggling with…” questions. Bear with me here.

We went to mass on January 1st (Mary, Mother of God) and they had hymns directed to Mary. Both of us grew up in protestant churches and, in these churches, if you sang it was either to God, about God, or about following God.

One song made mention of lifting up our praises to Mary. We were able to see a clear distinction between praises you would give to Mary, Joseph, or any other noteworthy person deserving of praise.

Another song referred to Mary as the “morning star” when another part of the mass used the same phrase to identify Jesus. This was more difficult to tackle and required some research on my part to find that “morning star” meant “bringer of light” and, as I’m sure anyone can agree, Mary brought forth much more than light: she brought the Light.

My wife and I have been in RCIA for a while (Easter vigil, anyone?) but both of these issues would have been huge obstacles for any protestant or fallen-away Catholic that had visited the Church for any reason.

That said, even after we overcame these obstacles there was still this issue: Shouldn’t songs sung at Mass be focused on God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit?

I consider that Mary is only great because of what God used her for and did through her so if we honor her we are giving further praise to God and his perfect will.

However, my wife had an interesting perspective. Though the scenerio is not a perfect comparison, if a protestant church tried to lead a congregation through a song during a service about Martin Luther and his admirable bravery during the reformation it would be a scandal. Shouldn’t Catholics, who are actually preparing to physically receive the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ, be all the more focused on Him?

Thoughts? Opinions?

While not really for mass, O Mary Don’t You Weep No More,
is very nice. tells about how mary went nose to nose with Herod.
youtube.com/watch?v=1_NDH5H0RuE
thou it’s more of a old spiritial.

Also, How about Ave Maria?
Ave maria
Maiden mild!
Oh, listen to a maiden’s prayer
For thou canst hear amid the wild
’this thou, ’this thou canst save amid despair
We slumber safely till the morrow
Though we’ve by man outcast reviled
Oh, maiden, see a maiden’s sorrow
Oh, mother, hear a suppliant child!
Ave maria
Ave maria, gratia plena
Maria, gratia plena
Maria, gratia plena
Ave, ave dominus
Dominus tecum
The murky cavern’s air so heavy
Shall breathe of balm if thou hast smiled
Oh, maiden, hear a maiden pleadin’
Oh, mother, hear a suppliant child
Ave maria
Ave maria

err, this Celine Dion’s Version thou.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Since the topic is about appropriate songs for Mass regarding Mary and the Saints, I will allow it in the L&S forum. This is an explanatory thread, however, not one for debate–just so everyone understands. Thank you all.

 

[samovila]

I am a cantor at our church and on Marian feasts we usually do a hymn or two dedicated to Holy Mary, but not all of the hymns. Music is meant to help us celebrate the Mass. Communion hymns at our church are almost always related to Christ and the Eucharist while there is a little more flexibility with the other hymns. Sometimes Marian hymns are done as a prelude instead of being part of the mass. I don’t know if there are any explicit rules about choosing hymns for mass, but not every church or music director would choose to do all Mary hymns on a Marian feast. I know our music director wouldn’t find that appropriate.

 

[Scardinoz]

While not really for mass, O Mary Don’t You Weep No More,
is very nice. tells about how mary went nose to nose with Herod.
youtube.com/watch?v=1_NDH5H0RuE
thou it’s more of a old spiritial.

That is a fascinating example. I found on YouTube a few (Baptist?) gospel choirs performing it in a setting that was either a church service or very similar to one.

samovila:

I am a cantor at our church and on Marian feasts we usually do a hymn or two dedicated to Holy Mary, but not all of the hymns. Music is meant to help us celebrate the Mass. Communion hymns at our church are almost always related to Christ and the Eucharist while there is a little more flexibility with the other hymns. Sometimes Marian hymns are done as a prelude instead of being part of the mass. I don’t know if there are any explicit rules about choosing hymns for mass, but not every church or music director would choose to do all Mary hymns on a Marian feast. I know our music director wouldn’t find that appropriate.

The insight is appreciated.

kage_ar:

I wish that early in MY conversion process someone had handed me a copy of Fulton Sheen’s “The World’s First Love”. I wrestled with Mary for years.

I’ll take that advice to heart.

 

[DomusAurea]

Here in Sweden they can sing an Ave Maria in a protestant church because it sounds nice. They’ll sing pretty much anything, in my experience. And buddhists are welcomed to do the preaching.
Still they have a problem with me singing the Salve Regina because I mean it. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Scardinoz]

It seems to me that my fundamentalist protestant experience differs significantly from the typical European protestant experience.

 

[DomusAurea]

It seems to me that my fundamentalist protestant experience differs significantly from the typical European protestant experience.

Hm. Perhaps I was underestimating the american breed of protestantism …

Mary is difficult to a lot of converts, I understand. Have you tried thinking of Mary as the moon and God as the sun? Mary reflects God. When you can’t look straight at God you can look straight at Mary. God will send her to shine his light in the darkness.

I don’t know if that helps. The point is that celebrating Mary is to celebrate God. If it wasn’t for the sun the moon would be a worthless rock.

 

[pnewton]

Faith of Our Fathers is sung in many Protestant Churches, so it is not an unheard of practice.

There is one thing in the OP that does need pertain to Liturgy. During Holy Communion, the hymns do need to focus on the Eucharist that we are receiving. Likewise, many feasts days need to have hymns that focus on the purpose of the feast. One does not sing Marian songs on Pentacost, or Corpus Christi, for example.

 

[Monica4316]

My wife and I are going through RCIA so, yes, this is one of those “I’m struggling with…” questions. Bear with me here.

We went to mass on January 1st (Mary, Mother of God) and they had hymns directed to Mary. Both of us grew up in protestant churches and, in these churches, if you sang it was either to God, about God, or about following God.

One song made mention of lifting up our praises to Mary. We were able to see a clear distinction between praises you would give to Mary, Joseph, or any other noteworthy person deserving of praise.

Hi, keep in mind… to Protestants, worship (as in praise and worship) consists of singing/praying. To Catholic, it consists of offering Mass. We only ever offer Mass to God the Father. (for various intentions). When we honour/praise Mary, it’s always for the sake of Jesus… not for her own sake. We honour her to come closer to Him.

Another song referred to Mary as the “morning star” when another part of the mass used the same phrase to identify Jesus. This was more difficult to tackle and required some research on my part to find that “morning star” meant “bringer of light” and, as I’m sure anyone can agree, Mary brought forth much more than light: she brought the Light.

yes in the Church, the “morning star” is sometimes used to refer to Jesus, and sometimes to Mary. It’s not to be taken literally… Jesus is the true Light… Mary brought us the Light

My wife and I have been in RCIA for a while (Easter vigil, anyone?) but both of these issues would have been huge obstacles for any protestant or fallen-away Catholic that had visited the Church for any reason.

That said, even after we overcame these obstacles there was still this issue: Shouldn’t songs sung at Mass be focused on God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit?

have you ever heard the Divine Praises? it says … God is glorified in His angels and in His Saints. Everything in the Church points us towards God. That’s another difference between Catholicism and Protestantism that I’ve found… (I’m also a convert). In redeemed creation, everything should point us towards the Creator…so that’s how it is in the Church it’s not “either/or”… and “both/and”. There’s no competition between Jesus and Mary… she only ever does His will and brings us closer to Him. So when we honour her, we’re bringing glory to God by honouring His greatest masterpiece.

I consider that Mary is only great because of what God used her for and did through her so if we honor her we are giving further praise to God and his perfect will.

However, my wife had an interesting perspective. Though the scenerio is not a perfect comparison, if a protestant church tried to lead a congregation through a song during a service about Martin Luther and his admirable bravery during the reformation it would be a scandal. Shouldn’t Catholics, who are actually preparing to physically receive the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ, be all the more focused on Him?

Thoughts? Opinions?

I’d say that focusing on Mary and loving her only helps us to love Jesus all the more she said, her soul magnifies the Lord…

God bless

 

[benedictgal]

When selecting the music for Marian feasts, I have always chosen either Alleluia, Sing to Jesus or Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence. There is a Marian mention in both hymns. We need to remember that Jesus did get his flesh and blood from the Blessed Mother.

Alleluia, Sing to Jesus

Alleluia! sing to Jesus! His the scepter, His the throne.
Alleluia! His the triumph, His the victory alone.
Hark! the songs of peaceful Zion thunder like a mighty flood.
Jesus out of every nation has redeemed us by His blood.

Alleluia! not as orphans are we left in sorrow now;
Alleluia! He is near us, faith believes, nor questions how;
Though the cloud from sight received Him when the forty days were o’er
Shall our hearts forget His promise, “I am with you evermore”?

Alleluia! bread of angels, Thou on earth our food, our stay;
Alleluia! here the sinful flee to Thee from day to day:
Intercessor, Friend of sinners, Earth’s Redeemer, plead for me,
Where the songs of all the sinless sweep across the crystal sea.

Alleluia! King eternal, Thee the Lord of lords we own;
Alleluia! born of Mary, Earth Thy footstool, Heav’n Thy throne:
Thou within the veil hast entered, robed in flesh our great High Priest;
Thou on earth both priest and victim in the Eucharistic feast.

Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence

Let all mortal flesh keep silence,
And with fear and trembling stand;
Ponder nothing earthly minded,
For with blessing in His hand,
Christ our God to earth descendeth,
Our full homage to demand.

King of kings, yet born of Mary,
As of old on earth He stood,
Lord of lords, in human vesture,
In the body and the blood;
He will give to all the faithful
His own self for heavenly food.

Rank on rank the host of heaven
Spreads its vanguard on the way,
As the Light of light descendeth
From the realms of endless day,
That the powers of hell may vanish
As the darkness clears away.

At His feet the six wingèd seraph,
Cherubim with sleepless eye,
Veil their faces to the presence,
As with ceaseless voice they cry:
Alleluia, Alleluia
Alleluia, Lord Most High!

These two songs are beautiful and, although certainly fit for Holy Communion, have a Mariani element that further adds to the mystery.