Soul Beyond the Body

[scameter]

I have been reading recently in the Catechism about the Church’s views on the soul, and it essentially says that the soul is the life-force of the person, and that the difference between human and animal souls is that ours was made in the image of God, which gives us personhood, dignity, and life after the death of our bodies. But, I wondered, how can we know that the “soul” is not merely apart of the body? Based on the Catechism’s description, it would seem that the “soul” is the electricity in the body, what unifies the cells and, by the brain, gives them direction, via the nervous system. How does the Church answer this?

 

[DonLeon]

I have been reading recently in the Catechism about the Church’s views on the soul, and it essentially says that the soul is the life-force of the person, and that the difference between human and animal souls is that ours was made in the image of God, which gives us personhood, dignity, and life after the death of our bodies. But, I wondered, how can we know that the “soul” is not merely apart of the body? Based on the Catechism’s description, it would seem that the “soul” is the electricity in the body, what unifies the cells and, by the brain, gives them direction, via the nervous system. How does the Church answer this?

I think you’re mixing a scientific description of life in with the spiritual. God made man in His image and likeness. Since God is pure spirit, we therefore are also basically pure spirit. But, He also gave us a physical body in which this spirit, or soul, animates it (some say we have a soul and spirit, but that is a moot point and for another discussion). Since the spirit belongs to God, it returns to Him to do with as He wishes when our physical body dies. All this is based on the teachings in scripture, our belief, and faith.
God Bless. Shalom Chevarim.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[tonyrey]

I Based on the Catechism’s description, it would seem that the “soul” is the electricity in the body, what unifies the cells and, by the brain, gives them direction, via the nervous system.

Electricity does not unify or give direction to the brain cells. It is a form of physical energy which is purposeless. It is not a director but a product!

 

[Paul3144]

I think you’re mixing a scientific description of life in with the spiritual. God made man in His image and likeness. Since God is pure spirit, we therefore are also basically pure spirit. But, He also gave us a physical body in which this spirit, or soul, animates it (some say we have a soul and spirit, but that is a moot point and for another discussion). Since the spirit belongs to God, it returns to Him to do with as He wishes when our physical body dies. All this is based on the teachings in scripture, our belief, and faith.

I would take issue with saying that we are “basically pure spirit.” God created us to be BOTH body AND spirit. It is helpful to look at man as a psychosomatic unity. It is true that between a person’s death and the Resurrection on the last day the body and soul are separated, but that is not the normative state of man and is the result of sin.

God’s redemptive purpose is not for the redeemed to be disembodied spirits for all eternity, but rather for the redemption of both body and soul. To imply that the physical is somehow lesser than the spiritual [NOTE: I’m not saying that was your intent] comes across as borderline gnostic.

DonLeon, it’s not my intent to come across as harsh. My basic point is that the body is not merely a shell for the soul but rather an integral part of what it is to be human. If sin had not entered the world, then body and soul would have remained forever united with no separation.

 

[scameter]

Don Leon: My inquiry with my initial post was indeed whether what is considered the spirit/soul by the Church could simply be electricity, or some other part, of the body, since it seems to function similarly to their description of the spirit.

Tony Rey: Electricity actually does unite the cells of the body, not just the brain cells, and it’s also what allows them to communicate between one another via the nervous system, and the brain uses that system to direct the body. Without electricity in our us, our body would still exist; it would just have no direction.

 

[Zundrah]

Don Leon: My inquiry with my initial post was indeed whether what is considered the spirit/soul by the Church could simply be electricity, or some other part, of the body, since it seems to function similarly to their description of the spirit.

Tony Rey: Electricity actually does unite the cells of the body, not just the brain cells, and it’s also what allows them to communicate between one another via the nervous system, and the brain uses that system to direct the body. Without electricity in our us, our body would still exist; it would just have no direction.

Very good point but soul is more on the base of feelings and emotions; we as humans have the ability to cry and laugh, while no other creature on the earth can do that!
Electricity powers our body to move e.c.t But it does not really aid in the expressions of the soul. It simply gives it enough energy to ACT.

 

[tonyrey]

Tony Rey: Electricity actually does unite the cells of the body, not just the brain cells, and it’s also what allows them to communicate between one another via the nervous system, and the brain uses that system to direct the body.

The brain is simply a lump of tissue which functions according to physical laws. Brain = Self ? Do you think the brain knows it exists, is morally responsible for what it does and is capable of love?

(I’ll be back later. )

 

[bobbyva2001]

You ask a question that has been dissected for centuries in the philosophical world. Descartes is a great place to start if you are really interested in this topic.

 

[mary1173]

Have any of you had an out of body experience? This is possible because the soul is a different form from the body. Like the stories you may have heard over the years, people have two entirely different beings. The soul is housed in the body as a jewel would be housed in bulletproof glass. People who have had out of body experiences report of seeing a tunnel of light, their loved one’s below them, and sometimes even the face of God in detail.

If you were to turn to the book of Revelation to John God does look as if His eyes were as flame, His tongue is a sword, He has a garment of cloth whiter than snow, and light shining from His every inch of His being.

how do I know this you say? On May 14th of 1987 I died on a hospital guerney when being taken into a hospital from a rehabilitation center that was 5 minutes away. It took the people at the center 2hr and 45 minutes to take me 5 miles down the road. Why? Because the center had the wrong equipment to keep my glucose levels up above 50 mg/dl.
Why didn’t I die? Because God didn’t plan on my dying yet. He said to me that only He decides when it is time for someone to return to Him. He said that His name was Adonai…hebrew for the Almighty Father

I don’t know why it happened entirely. Possibly because I despaired and turned away from Him, but He in no uncertain terms appeared to me, and His image was that of what I described above, and He said that I would go through many trials and tribulations until I saw Him again. So far I’ve had a total of 5 surgeries, lost my ability to bear children,( this is also something He asked me to sacrifice for the sake of meeting Him in Paradise.] [and so that I would not burn in the fires of Hell.]

There were 7 lighted lampstands behind Him, and a lion and lamb at His feet. There was a creature with eyes within its body, and covering the outside of its body.And angels were singing Allehluia and praising God in the highest.

The pit of Hell was to my left, and the devil was a gruesome monster of a man that revelled in the agony of unsaved souls.

So do I believe the soul can depart from the body and actually exist? Yes I do. And the soul is a seperate being from the body.But that is my :twocents: take it or leave it.

 

[Ahimsa]

Have any of you had an out of body experience? This is possible because the soul is a different form from the body. Like the stories you may have heard over the years, people have two entirely different beings. The soul is housed in the body as a jewel would be housed in bulletproof glass. People who have had out of body experiences report of seeing a tunnel of light, their loved one’s below them, and sometimes even the face of God in detail.

If you were to turn to the book of Revelation to John God does look as if His eyes were as flame, His tongue is a sword, He has a garment of cloth whiter than snow, and light shining from His every inch of His being.

how do I know this you say? On May 14th of 1987 I died on a hospital guerney when being taken into a hospital from a rehabilitation center that was 5 minutes away. It took the people at the center 2hr and 45 minutes to take me 5 miles down the road. Why? Because the center had the wrong equipment to keep my glucose levels up above 50 mg/dl.
Why didn’t I die? Because God didn’t plan on my dying yet. He said to me that only He decides when it is time for someone to return to Him. He said that His name was Adonai…hebrew for the Almighty Father

I don’t know why it happened entirely. Possibly because I despaired and turned away from Him, but He in no uncertain terms appeared to me, and His image was that of what I described above, and He said that I would go through many trials and tribulations until I saw Him again. So far I’ve had a total of 5 surgeries, lost my ability to bear children,( this is also something He asked me to sacrifice for the sake of meeting Him in Paradise.] [and so that I would not burn in the fires of Hell.]

There were 7 lighted lampstands behind Him, and a lion and lamb at His feet. There was a creature with eyes within its body, and covering the outside of its body.And angels were singing Allehluia and praising God in the highest.

The pit of Hell was to my left, and the devil was a gruesome monster of a man that revelled in the agony of unsaved souls.

So do I believe the soul can depart from the body and actually exist? Yes I do. And the soul is a seperate being from the body.But that is my :twocents: take it or leave it.

When you had a near-death experience, did you have some other sort of body, other than a physical body?

 

[mary1173]

I had the body of a 4 yr old girl once when I was 4, but it was as a spiritual being. Like how ghosts are explained. I was always in a yellow sundress and when I had my near death at the age of 14 I was in a teenage body/spirit, but I was as small as a speck of sand in comparison to the majesty of God.
So I do know what the body/ corporal and spirit are two different entities altogether. Because when I was sent back into my body, I was in the hospital with i.v.'s to raise my glucose levels back to normal. And I had a massive migraine to top it off.
I know it sounds crazy and creepy, but it really isn’t. There’s a sense of calmness about it…to a certain extent I hope I was able to explain it well enough to you. Feel free to send me some private emails if you want to talk more.
mary1173:thumbsup:

 

[mary1173]

I had the body of a 4 yr old girl once when I was 4, but it was as a spiritual being. Like how ghosts are explained. I was always in a yellow sundress but when I had my near death at the age of 14 I was in a teenage body/spirit, but I was as small as a speck of sand in comparison to the majesty of God.
So I do know what the body/ corporal and spirit are two different entities altogether. Because when I was sent back into my body, I was in the hospital with i.v.'s to raise my glucose levels back to normal. And I had a massive migraine to top it off.
I know it sounds crazy and creepy, but it really isn’t. There’s a sense of calmness about it…to a certain extent I hope I was able to explain it well enough to you. Feel free to send me some private emails if you want to talk more.
mary1173:thumbsup:

 

[scameter]

Thanks everyone for your posts, especially your very personal reply Mary, thanks for sharing your experiences.

When I originally posted this topic, I was in a state of doubt, wondering if I was going to keep being in RCIA or become an atheist. But, I resolved my problems and am certainly Catholic now, and hopefully in the future can treat my questions as questions rather than doubts.

To change the topic’s mood a bit, I’d like it to be more of a philosophical question of the nature of the soul, rather than as a doubt. So, here’s the new question: what is the soul?

From what I can tell from the Catechism and the Bible, the exact definition is a bit general; not incorrect, just general. They essentially say that for one, every living thing has a spirit, which is it’s life-fore that unifies the cells in it’s body and gives them direction, autonomy and individuality. And, the human spirit, called a soul, is the same as a normal spirit, but is in the image of God, which can have many different and equally true meanings, but fundamentally it means that we have dignity, a life beyond our body, and that we are self-aware.

To me, my opinion of the nature of the soul is that it is what I said in the previous paragraph, but that it is also consciousness. From my introspection and observations, I think that consciousness is four main attributes: awareness of experiences the body has; thought; spiritual feelings (which are different than emotions); and imagination. These include in themselves things such as self-awareness, reason, love (which is a spiritual feeling), and the imaginative ability to “put oneself in someone else’s shoes” so to speak which, as G. K. Chesterton once said, is what a civilized society is based on.

Also, while I think that the soul definitely has a life beyond the body, I think it is crucial (and often times forgotten) to remember that humans weren’t created as floating soul-ghosts; we were put in a body from our beginning, and are meant to be in one by God. Thus, even though when we die our soul is separated from our bodies until the renewing of the Earth, we are not meant to be that way, and we will be repaired by being resurrected at the time of the New Earth, when we will be given a new, perfect body, like the resurrected Christ had. Despite the Creed saying this (“and we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come”), many Catholics seem to forget this. I think that out of body experiences are possible, certainly, as a sort of vision. St. Paul himself said he was taken up into the “third heaven”, which is definitely outside of his body. But I don’t think we are meant to be outside our bodies.

 

[budgie2]

I don’t know what’s been said before. There’s unity between the body and the soul and the body can’t function as far as I know without the soul. However, if the soul was simply part of the body then it would be destroyed at death so this would be a more materialistic view of humanity. The soul exists after the body although the soul will be reunited with the body at the Resurrection.

 

[Zundrah]

I don’t know what’s been said before. There’s unity between the body and the soul and the body can’t function as far as I know without the soul. However, if the soul was simply part of the body then it would be destroyed at death so this would be a more materialistic view of humanity. The soul exists after the body although the soul will be reunited with the body at the Resurrection.

!!!RMEMBER THIS, God made a man out of the dust!
BUT he had to breath life into the man!
In other words - do you think that this is when he put Adam’s soul in!?

 

[geometer]

During the 19th century many wrote about spiritual electricity. The soul can exhibit electrical effects, but it seems that the soul participates in more than simply electomagnetic force. The great teachers tell us that we must become aware of our own spiritual nature, because most people are asleep in terms of the spiritual events that occur every day all around us.

If are not observing souls in this life you are still asleep…

 

[4Horsemen]

The soul, according to saints of the 16th century, is where intellect and will exist on one level, and imagination and emotions on another (if I recall correctly. . . haven’t read St. Teresa of Avila for several years). I also read somewhere that all human beings, as well as animals and plants have an “animating principle” that is labeled a soul (mortal soul), but only humans have an immortal soul.

Personal experience of soul:

I used to find it difficult to understand that the soul is so much a part of the body but that it leaves the body at death (heart stopping? brain waves being absent?). I also had an out-of-body experience, but it had nothing to do with dying (unless I died for a minute or two). In my case, I was apart from God in those years and lost hope one day sitting on the couch when suddenly I saw myself sitting there slumped from where I was up next to the ceiling. In a panic, I wished to be back in my body, and to my relief, suddenly I was there. It really freaked me out. I didn’t return to the Church until a few years afterwards. I just put the experience on the back burner of my mind.

This moment foreshadowed the early part of my return to the faith when at a prayer meeting I walked in to I sensed the presence of what I thought was the Holy Spirit in a corner of the ceiling. There were so many more signs and wonders God used to show Himself to me at that time in my life.

 

[geometer]

Have any of you had an out of body experience?

Yes I shared an OBE with a friend. We were experimenting with flashing lights and both left our bodies at the same time and viewed the room from the same corner near the ceiling. He said that I appeared like a ball of white light, and he appeared to me like a golden light which had the appearance of a large bird embyo. I found out later that, that kind of appearance is most common in the out of body state.