Soul/Body Confusion

[jesusalright4me]

Hi! So if any of you are Father Mike Schmitz fans, you may have heard some of his awesome talks on the sexuality teachings of the Catholic church. Just listening to one of his talks now, he said something that got me thinking. He said that what we do with our bodies really matters, because we are our bodies as much as we are our soul, and that our bodies will be in heaven.

So I’m trying to come to a better understanding on what the Church teaches on souls and bodies. I know the Church doesn’t teach Cartesian Dualism (a belief that we are essentially souls trapped in “body cages”, and that we can live without them), and that we rather believe that the soul and the body are a union.

However, how does this fit in with death? As a boy, I always believed that the persons soul went to heaven (or hell or purgatory), because it is obvious that we don’t see the body disappear before our eyes when someone dies. I know that we believe in the resurrection of the body at the end of times, but this would imply that we can in fact live without our bodies as a soul, at least for awhile until Christ comes again.

Going off of that as well, what is heaven like? I always have understood it as a purely nonmaterial union with God, so like, infinite joy. But a resurrection of the body would imply that heaven is also a physical place, right?

Thanks for answering my questions!

 

[smichhertz]

Hi! Good questions! I’ll take a crack at it:

However, how does this fit in with death? As a boy, I always believed that the persons soul went to heaven (or hell or purgatory), because it is obvious that we don’t see the body disappear before our eyes when someone dies. I know that we believe in the resurrection of the body at the end of times, but this would imply that we can in fact live without our bodies as a soul, at least for awhile until Christ comes again.

Correct! Human nature is body and soul together. When we go to Heaven we enjoy the Beatific Vision but do not have bodies, so we are in an incomplete state. Still completely happy, but not united in our full human nature.

Going off of that as well, what is heaven like? I always have understood it as a purely nonmaterial union with God, so like, infinite joy. But a resurrection of the body would imply that heaven is also a physical place, right?

Correct. We know that Heaven must be some kind of physical place because Jesus went there with his body, as did Mary with her’s. And after our own personal resurrection, we will as well. However, keep in mind that Jesus was able to walk through walls with his body, so it might not be a quite like a physical place here on Earth would be.

As for the Beatific Vision itself, it remains a supernatural mystery. We cannot hope to comprehend it.

Hope that helps!

 

[GEddie]

The human soul is the soul of the body.

However, it is spiritual (including its major product, the human mind), and so does not die, because only biological matter can die.

The soulish functions would, however, go into an abeyance without eyes to see through, a head to hold the mind, limbs to live life through, etc.

Fortunately, there is no time without physical matter. Time is physical, and so our soul does not experience the time lapse leading to our restoration as the pneumatikon soma (spiritual body).

IIUC.

ICXC NIKA!

 

[Karen107]

This is my understanding of it…

Your Father said the same thing that I’ve learned, I believe, that our bodies cannot be separated from our souls ever because that’s what makes us a ‘person’, but the outside of us is our garment, that is ‘clothed in Christ’ and should be pure. This speaks to our actions… The soul is our insides… Our Souls, what it is like on our insides, should match what we do on the outside, our garments, so that we are ‘fully pure’ both body and soul…So on our way there we should do all we can to keep our entire ‘being’ pure by living a good Christian life or else Jesus will have to purify us more in heaven… There’s where purgatory comes in…where we will have to suffer a time until we are lifted up into the fullness of heaven… There is a particular judgement, when we die and a general judgement at the resurrection of the body. At each point all that we do that is good and all that we do that is bad will be laid out so that Jesus will purify us of our sins…It says in scripture to be holy and Perfect as God Our Father is holy and perfect and God is in heaven so we have to be purified of any imperfections or sins before we can be at peace with God… We don’t want to be in there long, we want to be pure in heaven to see the face of God… (the Beatific vision).

This gives us a clue as to how we will be…

1 Corinthians 3:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

So now Jesus is in heaven, and when we make it to heaven we should see Jesus and others because we will be made complete in God… but we can’t now because we’re not in heaven… So when we are in heaven we will be fully known and see things as they really are and they will be as real as the nose on our faces… Our bodies cannot be separated from our souls but our bodies will be changed into a spiritual glorified body, this happens through the transforming power of Jesus Christ…

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another.

42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

The Resurrection of the dead happens at the end of time when the body of Christ, which is the Church, will be glorified as one body of Christ, with Jesus Christ the bridegroom, as the head of the Body. And the earth as we know it will pass away… And we will be made complete as one Glorified Body of Christ (those in heaven and on earth)… This happens in an instant…

Now we can see this all through a mirror, dimly, at the mass when we receive communion with Our Lord and all the angels and Saints in heaven because we know that heaven is with us when we receive our Lord… But at the end, there will be no separation between heaven and earth because we will all be together in the new heaven and new earth…

Heaven is our Fathers home… when we get there we will know what it will be like, however knowing how God is, we will love it… Whew that was a long winded answer…

 

[Karen107]

However, how does this fit in with death? As a boy, I always believed that the persons soul went to heaven (or hell or purgatory), because it is obvious that we don’t see the body disappear before our eyes when someone dies.

Our actual physical human bodies we have on this earth will return to dust…

This is said at Lent when we receive ashes on our foreheads… Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return… So at our death our spiritual bodies separate from our physical bodies…

 

[thebiag]

demonichuman possession can not happen if the human spirit and the physical body were perfectly fused…Jesus spent many occasions where dirty spirits were co habitating inside the bodies along with the original owner of the body.and forced them out …Exorxist Priests can testify to the imperfect fusion of the immortal soul( human spirit) and the mortal body evidences they have seen

Secondly Heaven is a Physical Place where the Father JeSus (latin name) and the Son Christos (Greek name) and the Holy Spirit are located…
our Prayer
Our Father who is in Heaven Holy be is Name…(this is well defined).
The Virgin Mother is there too ! risen to heaven with her body and Soul and all the known cannonized Saints are there ressurected with an immortal body…
Jesus invited the crucified sinner
This is Why Roman Catholics pray to the patrons saints in heaven…since they are not dead and are not waiting corpes in their earthly graves untill the end times.
The Saints go immediately to heaven the rest wait in puragatory or go to hell

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Hi! So if any of you are Father Mike Schmitz fans, you may have heard some of his awesome talks on the sexuality teachings of the Catholic church. Just listening to one of his talks now, he said something that got me thinking. He said that what we do with our bodies really matters, because we are our bodies as much as we are our soul, and that our bodies will be in heaven.

So I’m trying to come to a better understanding on what the Church teaches on souls and bodies. I know the Church doesn’t teach Cartesian Dualism (a belief that we are essentially souls trapped in “body cages”, and that we can live without them), and that we rather believe that the soul and the body are a union.

However, how does this fit in with death? As a boy, I always believed that the persons soul went to heaven (or hell or purgatory), because it is obvious that we don’t see the body disappear before our eyes when someone dies. I know that we believe in the resurrection of the body at the end of times, but this would imply that we can in fact live without our bodies as a soul, at least for awhile until Christ comes again.

Going off of that as well, what is heaven like? I always have understood it as a purely nonmaterial union with God, so like, infinite joy. But a resurrection of the body would imply that heaven is also a physical place, right?

Thanks for answering my questions!

Here is what St. Thomas Aquinas teaches about the Resurrection of man.
newadvent.org/summa/5.htm. Read the whole part about the " Resurrection. "

The Church teaches that the soul is the " form " of the body, its principle of life and intelligence and that it is a spirit. The soul and the body are united as one Person and work as a unit. After death the soul departs and is judged and goes to either heaven, hell, or purgatory. At the general Resurrection, at the end of the world, our bodies will be united to our souls, but it will be a " glorified " body, still physical/material, but no longer subject to suffering, no longer limited by the restrictions of earthly matter, it will be able to go any where in a flash, just by a mere thought, it will be perfect ( if we go to heaven ). We don’t know what the new heaven and the new earth will be like but it will be some form suitable to the form of our glorified bodies. And of course we will enjoy the direct, intellectual Vision of God called the Beatific Vision. That’s the good part. I won’t mention what will happen to the unhappy souls. You can read that for yourself, its too depressing.

Linus2nd

 

[Rynard]

The saints in heaven do not possess bodies, therefore your soul can subsist without a body.

Bear in mind, in heaven there are only the “bodies” of God and Our Lady. These we can be certain of, because of the teaching that Our Lady, due to having no stain of sin, was assumed up to heaven.

It is intended that in the “new” heaven, we will have our resurrected bodies, all the other saints likewise.

Consider also that it is taught God doesn’t possess a body as we would think of it. And though God can be understood, there is mystery.

Do you know much about the soul? For instance, we gain great graces apart from the material world after baptized and confirmed, and these would lead to better understanding of the soul apart from the physical due to the graces confirmed. It is almost as if awaking to a new reality so to speak. The reality behind the reality, the lattice as some call it.

You can actually feel the movements of your soul. All you feel in the world is not just emotional chemicals or brain stimulation. That is what modernism would have you believe, sound and fury signifying nothing. If you believe this, it might not be good for you. You can even sense others. It is often felt or expressed through the movements in the heart.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

The saints in heaven do not possess bodies, therefore your soul can subsist without a body.

Bear in mind, in heaven there are only the “bodies” of God and Our Lady. These we can be certain of, because of the teaching that Our Lady, due to having no stain of sin, was assumed up to heaven.

It is intended that in the “new” heaven, we will have our resurrected bodies, all the other saints likewise.

Consider also that it is taught God doesn’t possess a body as we would think of it. And though God can be understood, there is mystery.

Do you know much about the soul? For instance, we gain great graces apart from the material world after baptized and confirmed, and these would lead to better understanding of the soul apart from the physical due to the graces confirmed. It is almost as if awaking to a new reality so to speak. The reality behind the reality, the lattice as some call it.

You can actually feel the movements of your soul. All you feel in the world is not just emotional chemicals or brain stimulation. That is what modernism would have you believe, sound and fury signifying nothing. If you believe this, it might not be good for you. You can even sense others. It is often felt or expressed through the movements in the heart.

Are you responding to something I said?

Linus2nd

 

[lmelahn]

Hi! So if any of you are Father Mike Schmitz fans, you may have heard some of his awesome talks on the sexuality teachings of the Catholic church. Just listening to one of his talks now, he said something that got me thinking. He said that what we do with our bodies really matters, because we are our bodies as much as we are our soul, and that our bodies will be in heaven.

So I’m trying to come to a better understanding on what the Church teaches on souls and bodies. I know the Church doesn’t teach Cartesian Dualism (a belief that we are essentially souls trapped in “body cages”, and that we can live without them), and that we rather believe that the soul and the body are a union.

The souls-entrapped-in-cages idea comes from Plato, actually (see Phaedo), but in any event, it is quite a poor way of looking at man. (Descartes’ mind-body dualism was much more radical than Plato’s, however.)

However, how does this fit in with death? As a boy, I always believed that the persons soul went to heaven (or hell or purgatory), because it is obvious that we don’t see the body disappear before our eyes when someone dies. I know that we believe in the resurrection of the body at the end of times, but this would imply that we can in fact live without our bodies as a soul, at least for awhile until Christ comes again.

Our souls, being spiritual, are capable of existing without the body. Spirits (angels and men) are sufficiently powerful that they cannot be destroyed by the simple deprivation of the body. (If they have one. Angels do not have bodies.)

However, in that condition, we are severely handicapped, so to speak, because our intellects and wills are designed to work in close cooperation with the body. That is why it is so important for us to experience the Resurrection of the Body. The souls in Heaven are not suffering from this—they can see God, and that is enough.

Going off of that as well, what is heaven like? I always have understood it as a purely nonmaterial union with God, so like, infinite joy. But a resurrection of the body would imply that heaven is also a physical place, right?

Heaven consists in the vision of God, the Beatific Vision, in which we will be united so closely to God, that we will see Him (with our intellects, obviously, because God by nature is immaterial), as the Scripture says, “face-to-face.” (That doesn’t mean we won’t see Jesus in his human nature, or the Mary, or the saints: we will. But the most important thing will be the Beatific Vision.)

Our union will be purely non-material so long as we are in the intermediate eschatology (i.e., before we receive our resurrected bodies), but once the General Resurrection has taken place, our bodies will also participate in the vision. (We don’t know exactly how that works, but Jesus gave us a glimpse of what that will be like at the Transfiguration. Suffice it to say, it will be a good experience.)

Thanks for answering my questions!

Hope I was able to help!