Soul Sleep?

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What are the “proofs” that people use for Soul Sleep, the doctrine or idea that after the individual dies the soul remains in a type of “unconsciousness” untill the day of judgment?

Also, when did this doctrine develop?
 
What are the “proofs” that people use for Soul Sleep, the doctrine or idea that after the individual dies the soul remains in a type of “unconsciousness” untill the day of judgment?

Also, when did this doctrine develop?
**Q: A Seventh Day Adventist told me that, when a person dies, he is asleep and is aware of nothing. Does the Bible really teach this?

A: No. Those who hold to “soul sleep” assert that once a person dies, he enters a state of unconsciousness until the Second Coming. Some use this claim to argue that saints can’t intercede for us, since they supposedly are asleep.

Isaiah 14:9-10 tells us that the dead are agitated and are speaking. 1 Samuel 28 tells of Samuel conversing with Saul after his death. In 1 Peter 3:19, Jesus preaches to souls in prison. Why preach to sleeping spirits? Talk about a bored audience! Try telling the rich man in the story of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31) not to worry, since he is just sleeping.

If the dead are asleep, one must ask how Jesus communicated with them during his transfiguration (Matt. 17:3), how they offer our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8), how they cry out in a loud voice in praise of God (Rev. 7:10), and how these sleeping, unconscious souls cry out, “How long will it be, holy and true master, before you sit in judgement and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?” (Rev. 6:10). That is a pretty windy statement for someone asleep! Those that have died are more alive than we are, and they surround us like a great cloud of witnesses (Heb. 12:1).

Jason Evert **
 
The belief in soul sleep comes from those who are exceedingly ignorant about the OT being a progressive revelation over many centuries. The Jews started from scratch and had to slowly contemplate many deep theological questions. Sometime a concept or question is introduced in one OT book and we don’t get an answer for centuries when a prophet gives an answer or an insight. Thus the very structure of the bible from cover to cover is a progressive revelation that starts out with incomplete partial truth early ideas. The SDAs and people who believe in Soul Sleep try to slice and dice the OT verses in the same tradition the Protestants do without any scholarship on the OT progression of truth. They would hold all verses equally truthful without seeing the surrounding social context not the questions that were feeding the Jewish phscye from prior centuries. There was not even any concept of an afterlife until the Wisdom literature came into being. So the SDA will find verses in books prior to the Wisdom literature where a prophet is bemoaning all things being vanity and happiness is only possible when one is dead and sleeping in the grave etc. - never to be tormented by the vanity of life or worrying about offending God. The ancient Jew thought that there was no afterlife and a man was rewarded in the here and now with long life and sons and olive trees he inherited from his father etc. etc. The idea of an afterlife is a fairly recent teaching to tell the truth.

But when we get to the wisdom literature we find that lo and behold - there is something going on after death. It’s not all over - and worse - there might be eternal punishments to have to suffer – “woe is me”! So now the poor Jew is tormented in the possibility that life does not end all his woes and concerns and He can’t even escape God’s anger in death. And then of course they get an ephinany and think “hey! Maybe I get some nice things in the after life if I win God’s favor and please him since He rewards some in the here and now also!”. Then Jesus comes along a few hundred years later and answers these lingering questions that the OT prophets had not yet got an answer from God. He tells us indeed the Sauducees are wrong (they are betting we all die since God would never be so generous to give us more than this life) and the Pharisees in spite of their hypocrisy got it mostly right - there is an afterlife. Yes indeed there is an afterlife and we live like the angels and “in my fathers house are many mansions”! This is HUGE - it’s a shot at paradise but the down side is you could also go to hell if you don’t get right with God!

But the SDA’s get stuck on the old ancient ideas of the Jews and try to use those verses to rebut the idea of immediate spiritual beatitude (or condemnation) at death. Some of these people are absolute obstinate in their beliefs and will simply “not see” the the other verses one puts up against their belief. But what should we expect from a religion who’s founder gave up on the idea and lost faith in his own religion then one of his followers declared herself a prophetess and innovated to keep it all going.

Anyway that’s the thumbnail sketch of it all but it’s totally whacked…

James
 
Also:

**Q: Some groups, such as Christadelphians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Seventh-Day Adventists, claim that we are not conscious between the time of our death and our resurrection but that our souls either cease to exist or are asleep. They cite verses that picture death as a sleep (e.g. Dan. 12:2, 1 Cor. 15:51). How can we refute this?

A: These verses use what is known as phenomenological language, the language of appearances. Phenomenological language occurs when we describe something as it looks, irrespective of how it is. The classic example of phenomenological language is talk of the sun rising and setting. The sun appears to rise and set , but this motion is actually due to the rotation of the earth rather than to motion of the sun around the earth.

Verses that speak of the dead sleeping use phenomenological language. For example, Daniel 12:2 states, “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” This image is of people getting up much as a sleeper rises in the morning. The sleep being discussed is phenomenological sleep, not literal sleep (Daniel is not talking about living people who sleep on the ground). Because dead people look like they are sleeping, especially when lying on their deathbeds (and notice that people often die on beds, enhancing the sleep analogy), the Bible often uses “sleep” as a euphemism for “death.” In fact, this euphemism is common today.

There are two versions of the :soul sleep" theory.

The Jehovah’s Witness claims that the soul ceases to exist at death and then is re-created by God at the resurrection. If their theory were true and there were no soul which survives death, it is difficult to see why the re-created “you” is not just a copy of you. It may have all your memories, but it is hard to see why it is not just a copy. If God had created this copy while you still existed, the fact it is a copy rather than the real you would be obvious.

If it is a copy, that causes problems of justice. Because you ceased to exist, you–the real you–were never punished for your sins or rewarded for your good deeds; you simply ceased to exist. Similarly, the copy of you which was created on the Last Day is then punished or rewarded for things it never did.

Once one has distinguished between the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ view and the view that claims that our souls simply sleep between death and resurrection, one can go on to refute these ideas by using the Bible. The following verses apply to both versions of the doctrine.

In Revelation 6:9-10, John writes, “When he [Christ] opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?’”

Here John sees the disembodied souls of early Christian martyrs. The fact they are disembodied is known because they have been slain. Thus disembodied souls exist. The fact they are conscious is known because they cry out to God for vengeance. Unconscious people can’t do that. Thus conscious, disembodied souls exist.

In Revelation 20:4 John sees these souls again: “Then I saw . . . the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God and who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Here again we have disembodied souls (they had been beheaded). John sees them coming to life to reign with Christ–hence they are in a pre-resurrection state. Some scholars argue that this is a spiritual resurrection rather than a physical one. Even if that were so, it would only strengthen the case for conscious, disembodied souls because, after having been beheaded, they would be reigning with Christ in heaven in a disembodied state. **
 
The belief in soul sleep comes from those who are exceedingly ignorant about the OT being a progressive revelation over many centuries. The Jews started from scratch and had to slowly contemplate many deep theological questions. Sometime a concept or question is introduced in one OT book and we don’t get an answer for centuries when a prophet gives an answer or an insight. Thus the very structure of the bible from cover to cover is a progressive revelation that starts out with incomplete partial truth early ideas. The SDAs and people who believe in Soul Sleep try to slice and dice the OT verses in the same tradition the Protestants do without any scholarship on the OT progression of truth. They would hold all verses equally truthful without seeing the surrounding social context not the questions that were feeding the Jewish phscye from prior centuries. There was not even any concept of an afterlife until the Wisdom literature came into being. So the SDA will find verses in books prior to the Wisdom literature where a prophet is bemoaning all things being vanity and happiness is only possible when one is dead and sleeping in the grave etc. - never to be tormented by the vanity of life or worrying about offending God. The ancient Jew thought that there was no afterlife and a man was rewarded in the here and now with long life and sons and olive trees he inherited from his father etc. etc. The idea of an afterlife is a farily recent teaching to tell the truth.

But when we get to the wisdom literature we find that lo and behold - there is something going on after death
. It’s not all over - and worse - there might be eternal punishments to have to suffer – “woe is me”! So now the poor Jew is tormented in the possibility that life does not end all his woes and concerns and He can’t even escape God’s anger in death. And then of course they get an ephinany and think “hey! Maybe I get some nice things in the after life if I win God’s favor and please him since He rewards some in the here and now also!”. Then Jesus comes along a few hundred years later and answers this with lingering question that the OT prophets had not yet go an answer from God. He tells us indeed there is an afterlife and we live like the angels and “in my fathers house are many mansions”…

But the SDA’s get stuck on the old ancient ideas of the Jews and try to use those verses to rebut the idea of immediate spiritual beatitude (or condemnation) at death. Some of these people are absolute obstinate in their beliefs and will simply “not see” the the other verses one puts up against their belief. But what should we expect from a religion who’s founder gave up on the idea and lost faith in his own religion then one of his followers declared herself a prophetess and innovated to keep it all going.

Anyway that’s the thumbnail sketch of it all but it’s totally whacked…

James
This is really interesting.
 
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