Speaking in tongues

[hmm]

Why do certain Protestant religions believe that “Speaking in tongues symbolizes God’s complete control of the believer?”

(upci.org/doctrine/tongues.asp)

Is it true? As a Catholic, what evidence do we have that this is NOT the case?

 

[AlwaysAsking]

At a Potter’s Workshop service I attended, the entire congregation got up and began murmuring incomprehensibly. They had to do this to prove that they had received the Spirit (and therefore, that they were saved. I was shown this verse.

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”
-Acts 2:4

however, shortly afterward it says:

“…every man heard them speak in his own language”
from Acts 2:6

nobody points out this verse when discussing tongues. Even at my church, they said it was important to pray for the gift of tongues (yammering; not foreign languages).

I can get all the verses for you, but essentially, everybody ignores the verse which says you’re yammering pointlessly if you don’t have someone there to interpret what you’re saying. And funny thing, I’ve never seen anybody show up with the gift of interpretation. I’ve never heard of anybody praying for the gift of interpretation, either.

As far as I can tell, you’d do better to study a foreign language and then go witness to the lost in that language. But what do I know?

 

[AshleyBelle]

I found this great article on the CAF library about the subject of speaking in tongues

catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9804chap.asp

Here is what it says:

THE NATURE OF TONGUES
By James Akin

Ever since 1906 Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles, from which the current Pentecostal and charismatic movements flow, speaking in tongues has been the subject of controversy. Some of the confusion concerns the nature of the gift. One idea is that tongues is a mode of utterance that can be understood by anyone regardless of his native language. Another is that tongues are a “private prayer language” that is uniquely created by the Holy Spirit for each tongues-speaker.

Neither idea is correct, and both stem from a failure to appreciate what the word “tongues” means. Contemporary English speakers often look on the term as if it were mysterious and hard to understand. It’s not. When discussing speech, “tongues” has a simple and established meaning. It just means “languages.” Obviously, the word tongue can refer to the physical organ in our mouths. This organ is part of human anatomy, and every language has a word for it. But because of the association the tongue has with our power of speech, the tongue is invariably used as a metaphor for the manner of speech. Thus in almost every language the word for tongue is the same as the word for language. We speak of “the Spanish tongue,” “the French tongue,” and so forth. Over time, this usage became less common in English, and the word “language” has become dominant. That is why the term “tongues” can sound mysterious. We don’t use it to refer to languages most of the time anymore. Today, for English speakers, “tongue” more often will bring to mind the physical organ rather than the idea of a language.

Confusion is also caused by the fact that English Bibles switch back and forth between “tongue” and “language,” even though they are translating the single Greek word glossa. It would be clearer if they were consistent in using the term “language,” allowing us to talk about the gift of languages and to read in our Bibles of the apostles and the early Christians speaking in languages. By keeping in mind that this is what Scripture means, we more easily can understand what “tongues” is. It is an supernatural endowment by which one is able to speak in another language. One may not understand what one is saying (Paul suggests that people should pray to be able to interpret what is said in tongues; 1 Cor. 14:13-14). The content of one’s speech is determined by the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4), so one’s own understanding is not essential, as it is in normal speech. This corrects the first misunderstanding of the gift: If tongues could be understood by all listeners, no matter what language they spoke, then Paul would not exhort people to pray for the gift of interpretation.

The second misunderstanding of the gift-that tongues is a spontaneous, Spirit-created “private prayer language”-is rebuffed by the text of Scripture. As the multinational crowd gathered on the day of Pentecost showed, the languages in which the apostles spoke were real human languages that could be understood by anyone who spoke them (Acts 2:11). This has prompted some Pentecostals and charismatics to assert that the gift of tongues in Acts is different from the gift of tongues mentioned by Paul, but there is no basis for that. The claim would appear to be rooted in many Pentecostals’ and charismatics’ awareness that what they are speaking in is not a real language (not to say that the gift of tongues doesn’t occur; it does, just not as frequently as some claim). Paul nowhere hints that the phenomenon he refers to as “speaking in languages” (Greek, glossais lalon, from which we get “glossalalia”) is different from the phenomenon his companion Luke referred to by the same name when writing Acts.

Paul speculates that a person might be given the superlative gift of speaking a language used by angels (1 Cor. 13:1). But, in context, it is not clear that Paul thinks it a real possibility. He posits it as the greatest imaginable kind of tongues, parallel to knowing all mysteries and knowledge (the greatest imaginable extent of prophecy, 13:2a), having faith that can move mountains (the greatest imaginable gift of faith, 13:2b), and giving away all one’s possessions and delivering one’s body to be burned (the greatest imaginable expression of selflessness, 13:3). Paul isn’t saying that speaking in angelic languages occurs (or even that angels have languages). He is using Middle Eastern hyperbole to say, “Even if I could speak in the tongues of angels, that would not profit me if I did not have love.”

He portrays speaking in languages of angels as something that would be extreme and rare, if it occurs at all. That means tongues normally will be ordinary human languages. They certainly would not be unique, divinely-invented languages for the believer and God alone-something that would be even more special than angelic languages

 

[AlwaysAsking]

You deserve a fuller answer to that question, and Paul says most of it in 1 Corinthians 14. I encourage you to read that!

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014;&version=31;

The other issue is dealing with the Holy Spirit in bible churches. The first thing to review is Galatians 5:22-23

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205:22-23;&version=31;

So if you see a pastor “on fire with the Spirit” thundering condemnation, you have good reason to question that the Spirit is speaking through him. Likewise with one Christian lashing out criticism and judgment on another “because the Holy Spirit put it on my heart.”

Too often, I think (but I can’t judge for certain!) I see people claiming that their “whoosh” of feelings is the Holy Spirit, which gives them an appearance both of greater authority and less responsibility (the Spirit made me say it!).

If somebody’s telling you something that doesn’t seem quite right but you don’t have the chapter and verse to explain why you think it’s wrong, here’s what we say:

“I’ll pray on it”

which means,

“I’m going to stop discussing this, and probably not even think about it again.”

 

[cthulhubryan]

Why do certain Protestant religions believe that “Speaking in tongues symbolizes God’s complete control of the believer?”

(upci.org/doctrine/tongues.asp)

Is it true? As a Catholic, what evidence do we have that this is NOT the case?

Most of the Protestant churches that teach this sort of thing are way out there (schisms of schisms of schisms…) I have a cousin who belongs to a church where you cannot be a member unless you have spoken in tongues. Therefore everyone has done so. Most of them are just muttering gibberish however. Paul tells us in Corinthians that unless there is one there to translate then the church is not edified and therefore it is not a gift of the spirit.

Most also forget that tongues is the least of the spiritual gifts but, unlike healing and prophecy, is also the ‘gift’ least able to be challenged. It is clear to all if a man with measles is suddenly healed or if you clearly state that the Houston Astros will win 150 games and the world series next year. But it is not immediately clear if one is truly speaking in tongues or is just muttering gibberish.

 

[racing59]

I found this great article on the CAF library about the subject of speaking in tongues

catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9804chap.asp

Here is what it says:

This is another problematic area in the Catholic Church. I went to a Catholic High School and attended Catholic Churches that believed in the Gift of tongues, known as the Charismatic movement. I also watched this movement get crushed in many parishes and prayer groups, because people did not understand. I attended St. Christophers in West Covina, Ca, were the Charismatic prayer group had around 350 people led by two Catholic priest. I watch groups like this get squashed. I for one believe in the gifts and have experienced it first hand when the priest put hands on our heads. It is like the Eucharist in that you either believe or you don’t, but experiencing is believing. I do have a problem with churches ( not just Catholic) that want to squash the gifts of the Holy Spirit. My own personal belief.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Oh I hope you don’t think I was trying to say I don’t think speaking in tongues is a real gift of the Holy Spirit… It is VERY real… In fact, I know a very dear, faithful priest, who has experienced this gift. He said it was spontaneous, not planned, and that it was very clearly the working of the Holy Spirit!

I just think there is a lot of misunderstanding about what the gift actually is though… And a lot of abuse and over-importance placed on it.

 

[racing59]

Oh I hope you don’t think I was trying to say I don’t think speaking in tongues is a real gift of the Holy Spirit… It is VERY real… In fact, I know a very dear, faithful priest, who has experienced this gift. He said it was spontaneous, not planned, and that it was very clearly the working of the Holy Spirit!

I just think there is a lot of misunderstanding about what the gift actually is though… And a lot of abuse and over-importance placed on it.

To this I agree, there is abuse, and tongues is the least of the gifts. What I don’t understand is the huge resistance by some churches ( not just Catholic) that deny a gift freely given by God through the Holy Spirit. People are right, there needs to be an interpreter though.

 

[LutheranDK]

Why do certain Protestant religions believe that “Speaking in tongues symbolizes God’s complete control of the believer?”

(upci.org/doctrine/tongues.asp)

Is it true? As a Catholic, what evidence do we have that this is NOT the case?

I’m Protestant, as my name might indicate , and I too reject that interpretation. It’s nonsense. Speaking in tongues is a gift that we should pray for, because it will enhance our prayer-life (is that a word in English? Anyway, y’all know what I meant ), but unless there are someone present in the congregation who has the gift of Interpretation, speaking in tongues should NOT be done during service, as per Paul’s instructions.

But I’t really appreciate it if you would not say “protestant religions”, but “denominations” instead. Protestant, Roman-Catholic, Orthodox - we all worship the same Lord

 

[hmm]

I’m sorry LutheranDK. You are completely right I used to be of a protestant denomination myself and I agree 100% that we do worship the same Lord and Savior.

And thanks to EVERYONE who has been posting! Your information about the gift of interpretation, as well as where in the Bible these doctrines originated from has been incredibly helpful.

I love learning

 

[drno]

From my experience, gift of tongues is real, although widely abused and faked. There are people with this gift, and couple of times I heard one person pray in tongues while the other one was interpreting - and few other people in the group with the gift of interpretation all agreed… Also, I heard a testimony from one person who received the gift of tongues on the day after he was confirmed… and as he never heard of it before, he was very scared (he just started talking ‘gibberish’) - only later he learned what it was. Also, another Catholic person who was not at all involved with Charismatic renewal received the gift of tongues while reading the Bible and praying rosary…

The problem starts when people use this gift to promote themselves, or they believe it is a proof that someone has received Holy Spirit - which is completely against what st. Paul teaches. Some prayer groups put too much weight on gift of tongues, forcing their members without this gift either to leave, or to fake it.

On the other hand, I have met some people really living their faith to the full, who say that praying in tongues enriched their personal prayer.

---

Sorry for my bad English

 

[Christine_Lee]

At a Potter’s Workshop service I attended, the entire congregation got up and began murmuring incomprehensibly. They had to do this to prove that they had received the Spirit (and therefore, that they were saved. I was shown this verse.

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”
-Acts 2:4

however, shortly afterward it says:

“…every man heard them speak in his own language”
from Acts 2:6

nobody points out this verse when discussing tongues. Even at my church, they said it was important to pray for the gift of tongues (yammering; not foreign languages).

I can get all the verses for you, but essentially, everybody ignores the verse which says you’re yammering pointlessly if you don’t have someone there to interpret what you’re saying. And funny thing, I’ve never seen anybody show up with the gift of interpretation. I’ve never heard of anybody praying for the gift of interpretation, either.

As far as I can tell, you’d do better to study a foreign language and then go witness to the lost in that language. But what do I know?

I visited a Pentacostal chruch a few times and EVERYTIME they speak in “tongues” and rarely was it ever “translated”. I understand that speaking on tongues can happen, but what they did just plain freaked me out.

 

[4Squarebaby]

I visited a Pentacostal chruch a few times and EVERYTIME they speak in “tongues” and rarely was it ever “translated”. I understand that speaking on tongues can happen, but what they did just plain freaked me out.

In seven years I’ve heard tongues with interpretation about twice a year. Normally during praise and worship the leader may invite you to seek and pray to God on your own. On many live Gospel recordings you can hear the praise leader speaking in his tongue as they pray and transition between worship songs. I guess many will say they are self interpreting. The “Borat” scene of the freak show with many going off in their own tongue normally happens when the praise leader encourages the congregation to seek out God on their own. As it was encouraged at that time by the leader of the service it is considered in order. Again in the two churches I’ve been a member of that has happened maybe once a quarter and is not something that happens in every service.

All Pentecostal and Charismatic churches are not the same. While rare it is accepted as Biblical in my church. In the Pentecostal church which is the local megachurch in my neighborhood has a different take on tongue speaking. They are one of the denominations which believe you haven’t received the fullness, to use a Catholic term, of the Holy Spirit unless you have been given the gift of tongues. And they teach its members how to speak in tongues we have received many of their members who never received the gift and feeling ill at ease because of it sought out a new church home.

 

[Ruthie]

 I copied into Word a long Bible Study on tongues, done by one of my non-Catholic friends on a now-defunct forum. Since I don’t have his permission, I can’t quote it. He made many of the points that  Jimmy Akin did, and more.

He also told two anecdotes, personally witnessed by his Pastor. I’ll call him “Jed.”

A missionary from Africa was invited speak at the evening Service of a local charismatic Church. Jed was with him. After he had shared with them about what was happening on the mission field in Africa, a woman stood up to praise the Lord in her “unknown tongue.” The missionary went pale and ran out of the Church. Jed followed him, and found him vomiting by a tree. Turns out the missionary understood every word that the woman was saying, since it was the language of the tribe he served. He said, “I never thought I would ever hear something so vile and evil being spoken in a Church.” Later efforts to explain to the charismatic Pastor what had happened met with skepticism and doubt, because tongues were *always *translated in their Church.

Good translators.

The second time, several years later, Jed had been invited to speak at another charismatic Church. During the sermon, a man who had been badly treated by that Congregation barged into the Church and started yelling “Hypocrites! You are all a bunch of Hypocrites!” While the man was yelling, the charismatic pastor’s wife ran to pray for him in her “unknown tongue.” When she began to speak, the man started yelling, “Lady stop! You do not know what you are saying! Lady stop!” He turned and ran out of the Church. Later, Jed found him, and asked what happened. The man said she was actually cursing at him, in extremely vulgar terms. She was speaking the Yaqui Indian language, which he had learned several years before while working long-term in their village. Jed tried to explain to the charismatic Pastor what his wife had said. The response was, “I’ll NEVER believe that, because I could feel the Spirit moving when she was speaking in tongues.”

Feelings, woh woh woh, feelings…

I’ve also had the ability to babble away in nonsense syllables and make them sound like a language from a very early age - around 6 or 7, I think. I made it up on purpose, for fun. I can still do it.

Needless to say, thanks to good exegesis, these stories (and others I’ve heard), and my own ability, I’m extremely skeptical of tongues. I do have some friends who have private prayer languages, who are totally sincere Christians. I pray that they’re not unknowingly speaking blasphemies in their prayer closets.

God bless us all,

Ruthie, who prefers English

 

[Christine_Lee]

In seven years I’ve heard tongues with interpretation about twice a year. Normally during praise and worship the leader may invite you to seek and pray to God on your own. On many live Gospel recordings you can hear the praise leader speaking in his tongue as they pray and transition between worship songs. I guess many will say they are self interpreting. The “Borat” scene of the freak show with many going off in their own tongue normally happens when the praise leader encourages the congregation to seek out God on their own. As it was encouraged at that time by the leader of the service it is considered in order. Again in the two churches I’ve been a member of that has happened maybe once a quarter and is not something that happens in every service.

All Pentecostal and Charismatic churches are not the same. While rare it is accepted as Biblical in my church. In the Pentecostal church which is the local megachurch in my neighborhood has a different take on tongue speaking. They are one of the denominations which believe you haven’t received the fullness, to use a Catholic term, of the Holy Spirit unless you have been given the gift of tongues. And they teach its members how to speak in tongues we have received many of their members who never received the gift and feeling ill at ease because of it sought out a new church home.

God belesses everyone in differnet ways. He speaks to me through my dreams. I still have dreams that don’t mean anything. But the ones that are a message from God I can almost always point out before they happen. And this also holds tru to other people’s dreams. I have had no training in interpritation and a few times I’ve scared a few people cause I gave them information about their personal life by interpreting a summary of their dream.

 

[ENIYE]

I heard of a Priest who said a simple but heart moving prayer at mass. Where I am from in Africa, mass congregations comprise no less than 20 different ethnic groups with distinct languages. The confusion did not start until after mass, as people discussed the prayer. Apart from those who spoke only English, everybody else heard the prayer in his or her own native tongue. But the Priest said mass entirely in English.

The gift is real.