Speculation in the Commodity Markets Good or Bad?

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Is that not what Speculators doing? Purchasing Oil Futures (thus the term sometimes used Futures Market) at a price. But if everyone is buying into it the price for those futures goes up.
The future is not oil, crude, gas, or gasoline it is a contract. If the future is $140/barrel ($4/gal crude) then when the future comes due if the price of gasoline is higher than ~$4.20/gallon the future made money. If the price of gasoline is less than $4.10 a gallon the future lost money. In either case the future is sold(or forfeited) at a profit or loss to a crude buyer (like a refinery, this is the spot market). Forfeited futures are really “options” in which $42,000 bought and option to buy 3,000 barrels of crude for $140 each. If the spot market is at $120 then the forfeited option lost all of the $42,000 dollars

Btw if you believe the articles you can sell short. You promise to deliver the crude for $130/barrel in six months so once the “speculators” burst their oil bubble you will profit off their actions. Of course if you are wrong you will have huge losses.
 
Prices for wheat, rice or pork have always been negotiated among farmers, dealers and their customers. The same thing normally holds true on the commodities exchanges. In the end, futures transactions eventually lead to the actual delivery of a product. In industry parlance, this is called real trading.
But those days are gone. Real trading, says Hubert Gabrisch of the Institute for Economic Research in the eastern German city of Halle, has “become the exception on the exchanges.” In the case of wheat, for example, only three percent of traded volume actually changes hands. Prices are now determined by speculators, financial jugglers with no interest whatsoever in having any contact with or physically delivering the vast amounts of grain they own.
(spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,559550-2,00.html)
 
Prices for wheat, rice or pork have always been negotiated among farmers, dealers and their customers. The same thing normally holds true on the commodities exchanges. In the end, futures transactions eventually lead to the actual delivery of a product. In industry parlance, this is called real trading.
But those days are gone. Real trading, says Hubert Gabrisch of the Institute for Economic Research in the eastern German city of Halle, has “become the exception on the exchanges.” In the case of wheat, for example, only three percent of traded volume actually changes hands. Prices are now determined by speculators, financial jugglers with no interest whatsoever in having any contact with or physically delivering the vast amounts of grain they own.
(spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,559550-2,00.html)
For every winner in the futures markets there is a loser – dollar-for-dollar.

So if speculators or investors in the futures markets can control prices, how come they don’t** all** win?

Let’s try an experiment – you take your life savings, enter the futures market of your choice, buy all you can afford and come back in six months and tell us how much money you made.😉
 
Let’s try an experiment – you take your life savings, enter the futures market of your choice, buy all you can afford and come back in six months and tell us how much money you made.😉
Gold? Bought it at $300 /oz. in 2003 and now worth how much??? 😉
 
Actually a fund. But if the the price goes down so does the value of my fund. Gold prices go up my fund worth goes up.
That’s not the futures market.

But let me point out, even your fund cannot control the price of gold.

But the original offer was to sell your funds, take the money and inivest in the futures market.
 
Actually a fund. But if the the price goes down so does the value of my fund. Gold prices go up my fund worth goes up.
Did you know a fund can and does have negitive short term returns on fixed bonds? You can buy bonds that bear 5% interest and sell them later at a loss, it happens regularly.
 
“Speculators” play no role in prices. As I pointed out, for every dollar a “specultator” makes in the market, another “speculator” loses a dollar. If “speculators” could drive the market, they’d all be winners.

The people who are driving this market are producers (who aren’t putting enough oil on the market) and consumers (who are bidding against each other for the available oil.) This is compounded by the short-sighted policies of the US Government, in limiting oil exploration and drilling in the United States and off our shores.
On your first point, I can’t agree with you. The stock market involves speculators; anyone who doesn’t believe that is unaware of the bubble in the tech market in 1999-2000. And there is no question that some people lost money; a whole lot of money. There is also no question that some people made (and kept) a whole lot of money, as they got out before the bubble burst.

I fail to see, if people are speculating in the stock market and they drive prices up, that the same cannot be happening in the futures/options market. There is no querstion that if futures/options get over-priced and delvery is at a lower price, someone is going to lose. and there is no reason to presume that those in the futures/options market are both intelligent and smart - they may be intelligent, but the smart part was disproved by those betting the whole bunch on the derivitives in the mortgage market. When places like Goldman Sachs can’t tell you the intrinsic value of a mortgage deriviative, or the risk, therre is trouble to follow. The same may happen to the oil futures/options market, unless the price is driven way more by supply/demand than by speculation.

As to the stock market, there are speculators, and then there are speculators. There are those who can move enough stock, or have enough influence to start a rumor that will move it; and they make money by watching the late-comers jump on the bandwagon. The late comers lose; but not always. The move to charting programs on computers has put many people into the market on a trading basis and has created a market that does not strictly comply with the theory that the price of a stock is at true value.

I certainly will agree with your last points, though. China’s demand for oil is groiwing by leaps and bounds. And the tree huggers have us locked down tight.
 
On your first point, I can’t agree with you. The stock market involves speculators; anyone who doesn’t believe that is unaware of the bubble in the tech market in 1999-2000. And there is no question that some people lost money; a whole lot of money. There is also no question that some people made (and kept) a whole lot of money, as they got out before the bubble burst.
In this case, we’re talking about the futures market, not the stock market.
I fail to see, if people are speculating in the stock market and they drive prices up, that the same cannot be happening in the futures/options market.
Let me offer a brief, non-technical explanation of how commodity and futures markets work.

John and Jim have a problem. John is a wheat farmer. It costs him money to plant his crop, and he has no idea of what wheat will sell for at harvest time. He could lose a lot of money if the price is too low.

Jim on the other hand is a baker. He wants to expand his business. Of course, he needs wheat. If he borrows money to fund his expansion and the price of wheat goes up too high, he could go bankrupt.

Now imagine John and Jim get together even before John plants his crop. Jim has figured that if wheat doesn’t go above $40 a bushel (I’m picking this number out of the air), he can make a profit. John, the farmer, has figured that if wheat doesn’t go below $40 a bushel, he can make a profit.

So they sign a contract – even before the wheat is planted. John agrees to sell his wheat to Jim at $40 a bushel. And Jim agrees to buy it at that price. The money is not paid over at that time (except for a token amount) – payment will come when the wheat is delivered.

How is this different from any other agreement to buy and sell? It isn’t – a thing (including a bushel of wheat) is worth what a willing buyer will offer and a willing buyer will accept. Of course the actual market value at harvest time may well be different. If it is higher that $40 a bushel, John will get less than if he had waited. And if it is lower, Jim will pay more than he would if he had waited. They both know that – and agree that setting an assured price is worth it.

The problem is, John is busy farming, Jim is busy baking. They haven’t got time to run around looking for buyers and sellers all the time. They need a market place where these “futures” are bought and sold.

Now come Mary and Jane. Mary says to herself, “I know in my heart that wheat will sell for $50 a bushel at harvest time. So if I can get someone to agree to sell me a million bushels at $40 a bushel right now, at harvest time I can borrow the money – using the signed agreement as collateral – and turn around and sell the wheat for a cool $10 million profit.” So Mary goes to the market, looking for someone who will sell her a futures option on a million bushels of wheat at $40.

Jane says to herself, “I know in my heart that wheat will sell for $30 a bushel at harvest time. So if I can get someone to buy a option on a million bushels from me at $40 a bushel right now, at harvest time I can borrow the money – using the signed agreement as collateral – and turn around and sell the wheat for a cool $10 million profit.”

So Mary buys an option from Jane, a million bushels at $40 a bushel. Since very little money changes hands now, whichever one of them is right stands to make a whopping profit. And whichever one of them is wrong stands to take a whopping loss. We call Mary and Jane “speculators.”

This is the characteristic of the commodities or futures market – it is a zero-sum game. For every profit, there is a corresponding loss – dollar for dollar.

Now, if this is true, how can speculators drive prices? They can’t – if they could, it wouldn’t be a zero-sum market!! If the price of wheat goes down, Mary cannot drive it up. If the price of wheat goes up, Jane cannot drive it down.

Only supply and demand can influence the market – and speculators cannot control either of those factors.
 
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