Spirits, Shamanism, and Catholicism

[MicholasMolotov]

Maybe the is the wrong thread, but I thought it’d be good to post it here.

How many of you have watched “The Horse Boy”? It’s a documentary on a child with autism and his parent’s search for healing, leading them to Mongolia to deal with shamans. To summarize, the child is miraculously better after a ceremony with a shaman who was extracting evil spirits with the help of his good spirit helpers.

So the question is: Is there such thing as " spirits " and if so, can they be good or helpful? Does the Church provide any answers? Are there parts of paganism that are compatible with the Faith?

 

[Mintaka]

There are usually four explanations for any kind of apparently supernatural healing:

1. Placebo. The body likes to get well. If you do something that looks impressive, sometimes you can convince a sick person’s mind and body that they are now well. The body has many natural healing abilities which can be “stopped up” by stress and tension, and therefore can be released by catharsis. This normally works better for minor physical problems, but occasionally it works with mental and neurological ones. Many ancient medical and religious techniques lean heavily on the placebo effect.
2. Delusion. The person thinks they’re better and is perhaps able to use some placebo effect on himself, but really he’s not better. This includes both cases of being honestly mistaken and fooling oneself, and cases where somebody is mentally ill and making stuff up.
3. A holy miracle, with the power of God working either directly or through saints. This can include the work of charismatic gifts or graces, which God occasionally gives to non-Christians and even to non-monotheists. The Holy Spirit does this for His Own purposes, but it’s usually a sign that He has not abandoned anyone completely, and is determined to draw pagans and atheists toward His service.
4. An evil “miracle” performed by demons, in order to mislead the gullible. Often this is just the removal of some bad thing that the demons did, or something they did to worsen matters. Generally the sign of this is that it inexplicably leaves a bad taste in one’s mouth (so to speak), and that afterwards it spreads despair and unhappiness instead of joy.

I haven’t seen the documentary, but I’m pretty sure that a long journey, amazing stuff seen on the steppe, and an impressive ceremonial drama would make anybody feel better. So I’d bet first on “darned good use of the placebo effect,” before heading for any supernatural explanation.

There’s also a couple of other natural explanations:

1. Inadvertent discovery of techniques which help autistic people sort out their sensory difficulties. If you do things like make things dark for a long time, or simplify sensory (name removed by moderator)uts, it can help some people even though we don’t have anything reliable yet.
2. Kid was just ready to grow out of many of his sensory difficulties, so he did. This also happens sometimes. Having it coincide with a trip to Mongolia or whatever would be unusual, but people often do a lot of growing up on trips.

But again, I don’t really know enough about this stuff to say anything definite. I am not a doctor or an exorcist.

I would recommend not getting the idea that autism is demon possession, because it clearly is a physical, neurological ailment with natural causes. Autistic people who are treated like possessed people usually end up suffering bad things, especially since the usual run of non-Christian exorcism rituals include things like beating up “possessed people” or burning them with fire.

 

[Dorothy]

Maybe the is the wrong thread, but I thought it’d be good to post it here.

How many of you have watched “The Horse Boy”? It’s a documentary on a child with autism and his parent’s search for healing, leading them to Mongolia to deal with shamans. To summarize, the child is miraculously better after a ceremony with a shaman who was extracting evil spirits with the help of his good spirit helpers.

So the question is: Is there such thing as " spirits " and if so, can they be good or helpful? Does the Church provide any answers? Are there parts of paganism that are compatible with the Faith?

I have never heard of “The Horse Boy”.

But I do believe in what the Church teaches about the fallen angels. They were blessed to start with and were given a test. Those who rebelled from the Lord are the fallen angels. They had enough knowledge to know what their choice would bring them.

The angels have no material part (body), but are depicted in art with wings which symbolizes how quickly they get from “place” to “place”. When I asked a retreat master about sacred scripture depicting them with wings, he replied that the wings represent the particular powers that God gave to them.

God allows fallen angels to tempt us, but they are on a “leash” so to speak. We can grow stronger spiritually by resisting them. Prayer and the sacraments enables us to do just that.

We should not be seeking pagan cultures for healing. If those cultures say that we should love our neighbor, then that may be one thing we have in common-----but even that can mean different things to others.

Peace,

Dorothy

 

[Dorothy]

Maybe the is the wrong thread, but I thought it’d be good to post it here.

How many of you have watched “The Horse Boy”? It’s a documentary on a child with autism and his parent’s search for healing, leading them to Mongolia to deal with shamans. To summarize, the child is miraculously better after a ceremony with a shaman who was extracting evil spirits with the help of his good spirit helpers.

So the question is: Is there such thing as " spirits " and if so, can they be good or helpful? Does the Church provide any answers? Are there parts of paganism that are compatible with the Faith?

amazon.com/Angels-Demons-What-Really-about/dp/0898705509/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1455211569&sr=1-1&keywords=peter+kreeft+angels+and+demons

You may like the above book which tells much about the angels.

Peace,

Dorothy

 

[Polluted]

I’ll tell you this. There are evil spirits. I got to shake hands with a Demon in Guatemala. There is very real evil in this place we call earth and I will never forget what I saw. And it’s true…they absolutely despise Jesus Christ and anyone that strives to follow him.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

1. Texas and Mongolia are wide open spaces. In one, people get frazzled, in another, they don’t. What about the quiet, the pure air, maybe even the diet.
2. He was helped by good works. As his parents could afford the trip, and as the Mongolians are sincere, he was helped. “Visit the lonely.” Those Mongolians welcomed these folks.
3. Animals are empathetic. This includes their neighbour’s one. So to all accounts are the Mongolians, at least the ones on the steppes these folks stayed with.
4. Sensory and other relief is needed at all ages. This is not a “miracle cure”, but it is a miracle that kind people and beautiful animals are there to help people. We autistic people need every advance we can get. Please read the reviews by Temple Grandin and others on the Amazon page of the book version of this story. We are never done and dusted and need ongoing prayers in this crazy world, autistic or not.
5. These things probably outweighed any mumbo-jumbo factor. To the pure all things are pure and the CCC has a good paragraph on strange religions.
6. This probably did the boy’s parents no end of good as well. They can help him all the more because of this experience.

 

[someperson555]

Maybe the is the wrong thread, but I thought it’d be good to post it here.

How many of you have watched “The Horse Boy”? It’s a documentary on a child with autism and his parent’s search for healing, leading them to Mongolia to deal with shamans. To summarize, the child is miraculously better after a ceremony with a shaman who was extracting evil spirits with the help of his good spirit helpers.

So the question is: Is there such thing as " spirits " and if so, can they be good or helpful? Does the Church provide any answers? Are there parts of paganism that are compatible with the Faith?

Absolutely not! Everything happens according to God’s will. No spirit can work outside God’s system. However with that being said, in cases of complete ignorance. Where the person sincerely does not know any better, God won’t punish him for seeking out guidance from pagan gods. However even in such a case it is the one true God who is working through the pagan religion Not the actual deities God does not spurn those in bondage. So any person who sincerely asks for help will receive it. However, if a person of the Abrahamic .
Faiths attempts to work outside Gods established system he will be punished…