Spirtual atheist?

[Gordon_Sims]

Here’s something that’s confounded and annoyed me recently. I have a (cradle Catholic) friend who is an avowed atheist. He delights in sharing multiple posts every day from a variety of neo-atheist websites. He frequently bashes the Church, usually pulling from his seemingly bottomless well of internet-acquired misinformation and fallacies, then just as frequently deletes those posts when I start replying to them. One thing he never hesitates to throw in people’s faces is his unshakeable, firm commitment to his atheist beliefs. The only thing he brings up more than that is his belief in karma, zen, and references to things that warm/affirm/shake/comfort/etc. his soul. Just like his falsehood-laden posts about the Church, any time I or anyone else point out the hypocrisy of a Dawkins adherent spouting off about a karmic situation that warmed his soul being a true moment of zen, he deletes those comments or his original post altogether. I’ve tried to engage him on his beliefs in a more straightforward manner (both publicly and privately), but he won’t have any of it, choosing instead to only discuss them with fellow avowed antitheists. Anyone else have a similar thorn in their side? He seems a slave to the ideology (or at least the memes about it) so I don’t know that there’s much hope of successful evangelization, but I figured I’d see if anyone had any suggestions on how to approach him.

 

[AussieTrish]

Certainly, pray for him as only God can break through the mind and spirit of one who appears to lack intellectual honesty. That he simply deletes his posts, rejecting all possibility of honest discussion indicates lack of honesty, and his determined, unyeilding prejudice.

He would appear to be intellectually dishonest and intellectually dishonest persons are probably immune to argument.
and it would seem that he just plays around with you, you provide him with someone to push back against.
You can keep that up with him, but only to get his posts removed, as you are unlikely to convince him. There are honest atheists and honest thinkers, he would not appear to be one.

Pray for him always, as no doubt you already do.
God bless

 

[jgreenlaw]

Here’s something that’s confounded and annoyed me recently. I have a (cradle Catholic) friend who is an avowed atheist. He delights in sharing multiple posts every day from a variety of neo-atheist websites. He frequently bashes the Church, usually pulling from his seemingly bottomless well of internet-acquired misinformation and fallacies, then just as frequently deletes those posts when I start replying to them. One thing he never hesitates to throw in people’s faces is his unshakeable, firm commitment to his atheist beliefs. The only thing he brings up more than that is his belief in karma, zen, and references to things that warm/affirm/shake/comfort/etc. his soul. Just like his falsehood-laden posts about the Church, any time I or anyone else point out the hypocrisy of a Dawkins adherent spouting off about a karmic situation that warmed his soul being a true moment of zen, he deletes those comments or his original post altogether. I’ve tried to engage him on his beliefs in a more straightforward manner (both publicly and privately), but he won’t have any of it, choosing instead to only discuss them with fellow avowed antitheists. Anyone else have a similar thorn in their side? He seems a slave to the ideology (or at least the memes about it) so I don’t know that there’s much hope of successful evangelization, but I figured I’d see if anyone had any suggestions on how to approach him.

 

[QuestLove]

If he annoys you, why not just delete him? I have deleted aggressive people on facebook before.
The other option would be to block his posts, so even if you remain friends at least you won’t see the offensive posts. And definitely, do not engage him in any facebook arguments…these arguments generally lead to nowhere.

 

[jgreenlaw]

My step son was raised Catholic and lost all his faith. At a Catholic funeral, he did not even bow his head when they were praying. Funny, thing he was talking about his belief in ghosts and how he said he saw one when he was a kid. I thought this was odd, because if you can believe a spirit can leave a body, why not believe in heaven, Jesus and God. Last I saw, he seems to be finding his way to being a Buddhist. I truly think believe people like this are just lost. If you see his posts on Facebook that bother you, just hide his feeds and do not let yourself get into any conversation about religion with him. At least this is how I handle things.

 

[AKDee]

My only suggestion is to pray for him. I recently “unfriended” a friend on Facebook because her posts were constantly pro-atheist, anti-Christian and her last post that I read was very anti-Catholic. I decided that she must not respect me as a person- or any other Christian friend she had- to post that type of stuff on her page. It’s her right, so I never said anything, but I also don’t need to see that stuff every day. I do still pray for her though. She’s got kids, too, being raised in an atheist household. For her sake and theirs, I hope the Holy Spirit will guide her to Christ.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

If he annoys you, why not just delete him? I have deleted aggressive people on facebook before.
The other option would be to block his posts, so even if you remain friends at least you won’t see the offensive posts. And definitely, do not engage him in any facebook arguments…these arguments generally lead to nowhere.

He’s still a friend, and I enjoy our discussions on other topics. Although part of me wants to ignore everything he posts against faith and the Church, another part of me can’t resist responding and showing him and anyone else seeing it the opposite of what he’s posting–in other words, factual, logical, well-reasoned and compassionate responses to misinformation and animosity. At the same time, while I don’t believe I can sway his opinions (especially considering how close-minded he is to some things), I can’t shake the feeling that on some level I’m still obligated to be a positive, faithful witness to him.

 

[pianistclare]

He’s still a friend, and I enjoy our discussions on other topics. Although part of me wants to ignore everything he posts against faith and the Church, another part of me can’t resist responding and showing him and anyone else seeing it the opposite of what he’s posting–in other words, factual, logical, well-reasoned and compassionate responses to misinformation and animosity. At the same time, while I don’t believe I can sway his opinions (especially considering how close-minded he is to some things), I can’t shake the feeling that on some level I’m still obligated to be a positive, faithful witness to him.

Here we go again Gordon:
Another one of your “friends”? What in the world could you discuss with a person who is as you describe? What other topics would he be reasonable on…
I think you answered it yourself: you can’t resist. you try to convince people you are right all the time, and they never ever seem to listen. Forget it. It’s FaceBook for heaven’s sake. Some people crave attention. Don’t give it. If you see him in person, be cordial of course. But don’t engage. Most of your frustrations that you mention here (and there are many) are because you want to engage these people in conversation.
As Jesus tells us: “Dust off your sandals…walk away”.
It’s not doing YOUR soul any good.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Here we go again Gordon:
Another one of your “friends”? What in the world could you discuss with a person who is as you describe? What other topics would he be reasonable on…
I think you answered it yourself: you can’t resist. you try to convince people you are right all the time, and they never ever seem to listen. Forget it. It’s FaceBook for heaven’s sake. Some people crave attention. Don’t give it. If you see him in person, be cordial of course. But don’t engage. Most of your frustrations that you mention here (and there are many) are because you want to engage these people in conversation.
As Jesus tells us: “Dust off your sandals…walk away”.
It’s not doing YOUR soul any good.

We’ve been friends for about thirty years. There’s plenty of things we discuss outside of religion, although almost all of our interaction now is online since he moved several years ago. We see eye to eye on most things, disagree on a few and completely disconnect on religion. He was a non-practicing Catholic for a lot of years, delved into agnosticism, and then when he really started getting into the internet and found that memes contained all life’s answers, he jumped on the neo-atheist bandwagon. His atheistic philosophy seems to come almost entirely from memes and unreliable websites (basically, if there’s an easily debunked internet myth about Christianity, he believes it wholeheartedly), so it’s pretty easy to punch massive holes in any of his religious arguments. Regardless, he clings to his beliefs. And it’s not that I can’t resist talking to him about these things, but I feel an obligation as a Catholic to counter the more egregious claims and to at least make an effort to reach out to him about his faith, mainly because he is a friend and a fellow Catholic (even if he no longer considers himself one, he was baptized and confirmed). In other words, when I face that final judgment, I want to be able to say that I at least made an attempt to bring him home.

 

[Wyrd]

No, but I admit to doing similarly at times. I find peace when I am alone. Most people seem like a bull in a china shop stomping around ignorantly to destroy others views because they associate them with pain. I am not an atheist per se, but I think the uniting spirit of the universe acts in ways that confound theists and atheists alike. To see truth and hear God I think you have to be very quiet so you can listen. To me most people’s minds are like a loud motorcycle, a leaf blower, or some other loud obnoxious puece of equipment that is doing something fruitless rather than being still and quiet to hear and reflect the Divine. When I feel safe and able to let my walls down then someone comes in like a robber to disturb my mind I do not react well. You are being unkind and not treating me with love. Christian love would require not to speak of a friend behind his back would it not? You see I fear we are all laden with contradictions and I ask you to forgive my sins as Christ forgives yours while I walk my own path. Be well friend.

 

[Irishmom2]

when I face that final judgment, I want to be able to say that I at least made an attempt to bring him home.

You will be able to say you tried. But it didn’t change him, so now let it go. I am sure you have more to do in life than try to convince this guy he is wrong when he is dead set against changing his way of thinking. God never said you have to bang your head against the wall. You tried pruning the tree and it bore no fruit. Now cut it down and throw it in the fire.

Change your settings to not see every post on Facebook, and tell him you will have to stop discussing religion and matters of faith with him if you are going to remain friends.

And then do that.

 

[QuestLove]

We’ve been friends for about thirty years. There’s plenty of things we discuss outside of religion, although almost all of our interaction now is online since he moved several years ago. We see eye to eye on most things, disagree on a few and completely disconnect on religion. He was a non-practicing Catholic for a lot of years, delved into agnosticism, and then when he really started getting into the internet and found that memes contained all life’s answers, he jumped on the neo-atheist bandwagon. His atheistic philosophy seems to come almost entirely from memes and unreliable websites (basically, if there’s an easily debunked internet myth about Christianity, he believes it wholeheartedly), so it’s pretty easy to punch massive holes in any of his religious arguments. Regardless, he clings to his beliefs. And it’s not that I can’t resist talking to him about these things, but I feel an obligation as a Catholic to counter the more egregious claims and to at least make an effort to reach out to him about his faith, mainly because he is a friend and a fellow Catholic (even if he no longer considers himself one, he was baptized and confirmed). In other words, when I face that final judgment, I want to be able to say that I at least made an attempt to bring him home.

Well if that is the only thing you disagree on, why not just ignore his posts on atheism. It is after all his belief. I am sure he does not agree with your religious posts.

He knows the message of Christ, he was after all a part of the church. Do not set yourself up as the sole person to convert him, you will become frustrated especially if he remains an atheist. You did make an attempt several times to bring him back to the church and he refused. After a while, it is becoming more about you rather than the message. If you are not careful your tactics may be backfiring and you may be the actual person preventing him from coming back.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Well if that is the only thing you disagree on, why not just ignore his posts on atheism. It is after all his belief. I am sure he does not agree with your religious posts.

I don’t make a lot of religious posts, but he’s been known to voice his contrary opinions at inopportune times. I get that he doesn’t consider himself part of the Church anymore, but making an issue of it in response to a post about my kids isn’t the place for it. He hasn’t done it a lot and he’s nowhere near as bad as the friend who bashed me for “brainwashing [my] kids with that ****” when I posted about my one daughter’s baptism, but there are times when he’s asked for and invited debate over his views.

He knows the message of Christ, he was after all a part of the church. Do not set yourself up as the sole person to convert him, you will become frustrated especially if he remains an atheist. You did make an attempt several times to bring him back to the church and he refused. After a while, it is becoming more about you rather than the message. If you are not careful your tactics may be backfiring and you may be the actual person preventing him from coming back.

I don’t know that he has anyone in his life other than me who questions his beliefs. He does have one friend who used to be mine as well until she unfriended me for suggesting that she learn a little more about her faith before undertaking a crusade to change all the stuff the Church gets wrong. I’ve made more headway with her via discussions/arguments over things he posted than I ever had a chance to do prior to her unfriending me. At the same time, he has a lot of lapsed Catholics, anti-Catholics and non-believers as friends. When he makes some of his more outlandish statements I have a hard time not speaking up knowing how much his comments could lead others astray.

 

[pensmama87]

I love the “unfollow” feature on Facebook. I can remain friends with people even if the stuff they post is not to my liking (and even people I agree with on a good many things will post links that are just awful every now and then.) I’ll also immediately hide posts that I dislike and know will just generate yucky conversation.

Or you can download an extension like FB Purity and set it to hide posts with certain keywords. That’s how I maintain sanity with some of my relatives who I wouldn’t have contact with if it weren’t for Facebook.

Trying to engage with him over this is like casting pearls before swine. There is no point getting agitated and trying to “fix him” if he has no interest in discussion. Sometimes I have people on my friends list who post things I disagree with, but they’re reasonable people and I know we can have a respectful exchange the same way we would if we were talking in person. But it doesn’t sound like you can do this with this topic with this person.

 

[pianistclare]

I don’t make a lot of religious posts, but he’s been known to voice his contrary opinions at inopportune times. I get that he doesn’t consider himself part of the Church anymore, but making an issue of it in response to a post about my kids isn’t the place for it. He hasn’t done it a lot and he’s nowhere near as bad as the friend who bashed me for “brainwashing [my] kids with that ****” when I posted about my one daughter’s baptism, but there are times when he’s asked for and invited debate over his views.

I don’t know that he has anyone in his life other than me who questions his beliefs. He does have one friend who used to be mine as well until she unfriended me for suggesting that she learn a little more about her faith before undertaking a crusade to change all the stuff the Church gets wrong. I’ve made more headway with her via discussions/arguments over things he posted than I ever had a chance to do prior to her unfriending me. At the same time, he has a lot of lapsed Catholics, anti-Catholics and non-believers as friends. When he makes some of his more outlandish statements I have a hard time not speaking up knowing how much his comments could lead others astray.

You can’t “save” people who are not in the least bit interested.
If you want to teach, take classes, get certified and become a catechist.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

You can’t “save” people who are not in the least bit interested.
If you want to teach, take classes, get certified and become a catechist.

I went through a period in college where I wasn’t the least bit interested in the Church or religion in general. Thankfully, I had one friend who didn’t give up on me.

 

[Sarcelle]

Here’s something that’s confounded and annoyed me recently. I have a (cradle Catholic) friend who is an avowed atheist. He delights in sharing multiple posts every day from a variety of neo-atheist websites. He frequently bashes the Church, usually pulling from his seemingly bottomless well of internet-acquired misinformation and fallacies, then just as frequently deletes those posts when I start replying to them. One thing he never hesitates to throw in people’s faces is his unshakeable, firm commitment to his atheist beliefs. The only thing he brings up more than that is his belief in karma, zen, and references to things that warm/affirm/shake/comfort/etc. his soul. Just like his falsehood-laden posts about the Church, any time I or anyone else point out the hypocrisy of a Dawkins adherent spouting off about a karmic situation that warmed his soul being a true moment of zen, he deletes those comments or his original post altogether. I’ve tried to engage him on his beliefs in a more straightforward manner (both publicly and privately), but he won’t have any of it, choosing instead to only discuss them with fellow avowed antitheists. Anyone else have a similar thorn in their side? He seems a slave to the ideology (or at least the memes about it) so I don’t know that there’s much hope of successful evangelization, but I figured I’d see if anyone had any suggestions on how to approach him.

Speaking as a former atheist and as one who was raised as an atheist, I can tell you that faith is a gift.

The best you can do is pray for your friends as my friends have done for me. A friend who pushes you closer to God is a true friend indeed.