SPLIT: Jesus said nothing about mortal sin

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pageois said:
Believe me, I do not think that everything a Pope says must be immediately accepted as fact. You may recall that last year the Church elevated the ordination of women to one of the most serious crimes in Canon Law. It is now on the same level as child abuse in the eyes of the Church.

No sir. I don’t accept everything the Pope says as fact. And neither do most Christians.
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Then why did you quote and summarise the positions of theologians and Popes’ over time, then conclude:

“Phew! I guess it will take some time, however, for all those souls who went to Limbo over 800 years to be now transferred to Heaven - thanks to a magnanimous gesture by men on Earth”?

Unless you were pulling some sort of joke, it seems that you did assume that everything that they say must be accepted by Catholics.
 
pageois said:
And the scriptual reference to mortal sin by Jesus is…?
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  1. *]First you need to show from scripture where the Bible specifically teaches that every thing Christians believe and practice must be found in it. We tried that discussion…at least twice…the results can be found at the following 2 links. It’s NOT in the Bible, okay? & It’s NOT in the Bible, okay? (Part II)
    *]Limbo was never either doctrine or dogma, but only pious theory, so you err in stating that church teaching changed. Let the Children Come to Me:The International Theological …
    *]Ordination of women and most serious sins (Like abortion) carry excommunication as penalty, but the teaching of the church has never changed, and it will not, which you would have known had you bothered to study church teaching on this issue before trying to bring it up. (SeeWomen and the Priesthood) In fact, there are a great many n-C Christians who also deny any sort of ordination or pastoral ministry to women on a strictly scriptural basis.
    *]Most Christians reject the teachings of the pope? Better do your math homework, because there are far more Catholics on Earth than any other Christian community and the facts actually show that as of 2009 we numbered at 1,181,000,000.so of the 2.1 billion Christians in the world, we are better than half. Those are facts…(Vatican: Number of Catholics is up)

    So…you have made some mistakes in your remarks. 🤷
 
You believe in scripture alone,
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pageois doesnt believe in the Bible Alone. Solo Scriptura isnt his/her guide. S/He believes in Gospels alone and not even that. S/He values the red letter-- only the words that are recorded as coming out of Jesus’ mouth. and i’d venture a guess, not even all of those words.

but who said those were the inspired words? who recorded them? and who deemed the records authentic and inspired? that ‘who’ would be the Church. that collection of men-not-gods to whom Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would lead in all truth.

Jesus didnt say ‘mortal sin.’ but John, whom i’d referenced already, the disciple that rested his head on the Lord, the disciple that stood at the foot of the cross and about whom Jesus spoke nearly his last, “behold your son”, the disciple that received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, DID teach on sin that kills and he DID teach that not all sin will. ***That ***John did. So… he got it wrong?

did John get it wrong?

if John DID get it wrong, even the Gospels are useless.

if John didnt get it wrong, there’s a very short gap between accepting the reality of mortal sin and the distinct possibility that refusal to worship God is serious/ grave/ mortal sin (worship as commanded by God and as is demonstrated on the first day of the week in Acts.) the span becomes even shorter when one acknowledges the Church’s teaching authority as Jesus’*** intent. ***

the Church The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.
 
I might add, since the thread has already gone off topic with regard to mortal sin, that in the story of the last judgment told by Jesus in Matt. 25:31ff, Jesus condemns to hell those who have failed to observe his comandments: e.g.“I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink…” A sin which results in eternal condemnation is certainly a deadly sin–that is, it is mortal.

And as noted before, deadly–mortal–sin is also mentioned in the epistle of John.
 
Church_Militant said:

  1. *]First you need to show from scripture where the Bible specifically teaches that every thing Christians believe and practice must be found in it. We tried that discussion…at least twice…the results can be found at the following 2 links. It’s NOT in the Bible, okay? & It’s NOT in the Bible, okay? (Part II)
    *]Limbo was never either doctrine or dogma, but only pious theory, so you err in stating that church teaching changed. Let the Children Come to Me:The International Theological …
    *]Ordination of women and most serious sins (Like abortion) carry excommunication as penalty, but the teaching of the church has never changed, and it will not, which you would have known had you bothered to study church teaching on this issue before trying to bring it up. (SeeWomen and the Priesthood) In fact, there are a great many n-C Christians who also deny any sort of ordination or pastoral ministry to women on a strictly scriptural basis.
    *]Most Christians reject the teachings of the pope? Better do your math homework, because there are far more Catholics on Earth than any other Christian community and the facts actually show that as of 2009 we numbered at 1,181,000,000.so of the 2.1 billion Christians in the world, we are better than half. Those are facts…(Vatican: Number of Catholics is up)

    So…you have made some mistakes in your remarks. 🤷
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  1. Yes, most Christians are Catholic. And most Catholics - in the western world at least - will not attend Mass this weekend, thus ignoring a fundamental teaching of the Church and, ipso facto, that of the Pope. That was the intent of my comment.
 
pageois said:
Yes, most Christians are Catholic. And most Catholics - in the western world at least - will not attend Mass this weekend, thus ignoring a fundamental teaching of the Church and, ipso facto, that of the Pope. That was the intent of my comment.
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Yes, ‘most’, like every other Christian denomination. It is fair to say that there are at least 250 million practicing, well informed Catholics. Do you know how many times I hear people in my high school saying ‘im Christian’ and then showing complete, total hypocrisy? I would say that out of the declared 500 million or so protestants, 100 million would actually practice their faith.
 
pageois said:
There. That wasn’t so hard, was it?
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So, in your eyes, does that account to the doctrine being incorrect? He taught deadly sins, the name was given after. Same with ‘Pope’ for example. This argument is going nowhere as you are still holding onto fiercly the position of many fundamentalist Christians. ‘If Jesus didn’t explicitly state it in the Bible, it is incorrect’.
 
There. That wasn’t so hard, was it?
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apparently it’s a whole lot easier for me to respond to your considerably non-damning challenge than you to mine.

so P, did john get it wrong? cuz’ if he did, i guess you got no Gospel (red letter or otherwise.) let’s hear it. answer up.
 
pageois said:
Yes, most Christians are Catholic. And most Catholics - in the western world at least - will not attend Mass this weekend, thus ignoring a fundamental teaching of the Church and, ipso facto, that of the Pope. That was the intent of my comment.
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You cannot support that statement with any factual proofs, though I’m sure it’s something you wish was true.

Moreover that has nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread so as per the Forum Rules you agreed to when you joined us here at CAF, I suggest you either address the topic or bail from the thread.

This is a Catholic forum and we are in the process of counseling a Catholic brother to help him with his son’s issues.

If you have nothing to offer to assist with that, or just wish to argue or badmouth the Catholic faith and its people then CAF is not a pulpit for that rhetoric and propaganda and you may well find yourself on the STMP. (Short Term Membership Plan)

If you have specific issues you wish to discuss/debate the (again, as per the rules linked above) you need to go open a thread in Apologetics and do it there. This is the parenting forum and not a debate forum like apologetics is…
 
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