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Castello
Guest
I am actually NOT the Lord of anything, so, to say I am is creepy.
And I’m bringing up three very lovely girls
All of them have hair of gold, like their mother
The youngest one in curls.
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All of them have hair of gold, like their mother
The youngest one in curls.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
I aboslutely LOATHE almost all of the “contemporary” (it ain’t, it’s stuck in the 60’s folk music era) music that is now played at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, but I’d like to make an obersvation.
I grew up Southern Baptist (I did not convert until I was 26), on a farm near an Irish Catholic settlement called “Irish Ridge.” My grandparents lived most of their adult lives with Catholic neighbors, within a mile of the Catholic church, far closer than to their own SB church, where they were active. When I was growning up (the Council closed within a year of my birth), we had ALL sorts of groups coming and knocking on our door and inviting us to Church…the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Mormons, the Church of Christ, all manner of holy roller groups, etc. (it is to my grandparents’ everlasting credit that they were always impeccably polite). You know who never came? The Catholics just down the road. Oh, they’d sell us a ticket to the Lenten fish fry (at which event, at the age of three, I first made the sign of the Cross, seeing everyone else save my grandparents doing it), but that was about it. Now, these were first and second generation Irish, Bohemian, and Polish Catholics, and Catholics in the South periodically suffered for the faith and immigrants are almost universally viewed with suspicion, so reticence may have been naturally expected, but I always wondered about that, especially since we, as Southern Baptists, did our own share of door knockin’ and invitin’. And, of course, there was the economic downturn in the 80’s, which created the Northern/Eastern “Rust Belt” and forced Catholics in the north to relocate south for jobs, which then caused the Catholic poulation in the south to explode (the diocese of Galveston-Houston went from a bishop to an archbishop to a cardinal archbishop in a matter of years!), and then there was the advent of EWTN, which is very evangelical (small e) in its mission, etc., but yes, I think there’s something to the idea of the pre-Vatican II Church, at least in America, being more insular, and I’ve had lifelong Catholic friends comment favorably on SOME of the changes since then (and they are not, by and large, of the aging Haas and Haugen crowd, they’re committed, orthodox Catholics).
Anyway…I once read somewhere that the current Holy Father said that contemporary music that found its roots in and drew from the Church’s long history of music was fine and good. I’ve just never discovered any that seems to have done so.
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Incomplete
Guest
Yes. Exactly. I think the point here is that the priest is saying that certain music is leading us to damnation. Whether or not you like Haugen or Hass, that seems a bit extreme. I know many people who love God with all their hearts who also like Haugen and Hass.
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Usige
Guest
Well beyond the fact it makes many people think of the Brady Bunch Theme
my biggest complaint with that song is that the verses are sung as the voice of God. It is inappropriate for the people to sing the verse; they should only sing the response in the refrain. It also takes the focus off mass being about Christ and worshiping God. For me it’s one more way to turn the mass into something more about the people. It’s the same reason I detest another incipient standard, “One Bread, One Body.”I wasn’t there to hear the pastors homily, but it is possible that he was railing less about contemporary music and more about the theological fluff that most modern compositions are. Composers like Schutte. Foley, etc. are a bit like listening to bubble gum pop. They might not send you to hell, but you might wonder if listening to them would be less tortuous
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
But do they love God BECAUSE they like Haugen and Haas, or in SPITE of loving them?
I’m not sure if I can express this clearly, but, say you really get a ‘good feeling’ from hearing a song (though I think Here I am is by Dan Schutte FWIW). Anyway, you believe that ‘good feeling’ makes you ‘love God more.’ But does it? Especially if perhaps some elements of that song aren’t really doctrinally correct. . .doesn’t it matter more that you’re singing something that is ‘true’ even if it doesn’t give you a ‘happy feeling?’
I think too many people are taking a truth --that music for Mass needs to reflect a sacred character AND be doctrinally correct–and getting all huffy because they think it means that because a ‘favorite song’ they ‘love’ is not found to meet the criteria, that it somehow means the song is being judged as DRECK and that THEIR MUSICAL TASTE is being unfairly criticized.
But that’s not true. Some lovely tunes, some beautiful phrases, are out there in the ‘modern music world’ but it isn’t enough for something sung at Mass to have a lovely tune or a beautiful phrase or even ‘make me feel all good and holy’ in order for it to be appropriate for Mass. And that doesn’t make the song BAD. It makes it appropriate for LOTS OF OTHER THINGS. Sing the tune in the car if the TUNE is lovely -lalala over the words which don’t quite make the theological grade, or come up with your own lyrics which could be about ANYTHING. So if you adore the tune of “Gather us In”, make it a thanksgiving fun activity. . .
Gather us in, at Grandma and Grandpa’s,
Gather us in, we’re all in our place,
Come pass the peas, the stuffing and bread rolls,
Carve up the turkey so we stuff our face. . .
Make it a family song instead!
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Incomplete
Guest
They would love God whether or not Haugen and Hass were ever born.
My point is that the music of Haugen and Hass is not leading them to damnation.
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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
The cantors really do encourage people to sing. They kinda mention it in the opening announcements and they lift their arms for refrains, but still… it’s dead. BTW, our Church is jam packed every week so it’s not a matter of poor attendance, but I think many people take the solemnity to the level of mourning, rather than celebration.
I guess what scares me about this thread is that taking away some of the songs mentioned here (“Here I am” for example) would probably only make things worse.
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severus68
Guest
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liturgyluver
Guest
On the latter point, I have attended many churches and it does not seem to matter whether the hymns are traditional or modern, if there is a reluctance to sing, it becomes almost infectious. What is important is to ensure that the hymns are appropriate for the various parts of the liturgy and also for the liturgical year, so congregations can see the link between the readings and the music: (eg Come Down O love divine on Pentecost, On Jordon’s Bank, Lo he comes, Wake O wake in Advent). I hope that you see some improvement over the coming months. Best wishesThe cantors really do encourage people to sing. They kinda mention it in the opening announcements and they lift their arms for refrains, but still… it’s dead. BTW, our Church is jam packed every week so it’s not a matter of poor attendance, but I think many people take the solemnity to the level of mourning, rather than celebration.
I guess what scares me about this thread is that taking away some of the songs mentioned here (“Here I am” for example) would probably only make things worse.
O
Ohana
Guest
At one church we attended, the choir director spoke to the congregation before Mass and encouraged singing. He really invited singing, making it almost a “requirement” in full participation in the Mass. Even those who thought they could not sing were invited to open their mouths and let sound come out. If there was going to be a new hymn, there was a brief practice. There was very little “performance” singing by the choir. If they wanted to do something like that, it was often done before Mass started. I really liked how the congregation was engaged in this practice. The pastor sometimes let people know that if they needed a “quiet Mass” they could come to weekday Mass, but that Sunday Mass was a celebration. Interestingly, there was a choir at every Mass in that church.
By the way, sometimes people got tired of the “same old,same old” music. Gradually new music was introduced. In light of our past discussion on this thread - some of that old music was Haugen and Haas
It was replaced by the likes of Fisher, Farrell, etc. Sort of on the order of my complaint about singing "Holy God we Praise Thy Name EVERY Sunday when I was a kid. I actually like eto hear it sometimes now.
By the way, sometimes people got tired of the “same old,same old” music. Gradually new music was introduced. In light of our past discussion on this thread - some of that old music was Haugen and Haas
It was replaced by the likes of Fisher, Farrell, etc. Sort of on the order of my complaint about singing "Holy God we Praise Thy Name EVERY Sunday when I was a kid. I actually like eto hear it sometimes now.
C
Cat
Guest
Do you know for certain that the woman thinks she’s a star when singing…? Has she told you that?
Your comment is pretty harsh against a woman who might be merely using proper singing techniques, postures, etc., and as a result, has a professional presentation and appearance that is comparable to a “star.”
Also keep in mind that there is a difference between a “star” and a “professional.” I am a professional pianist (because I accept money for various gigs), and when I play in Mass, I hold myself to a certain high standard, learned throughout more than 40 years of playing in church. This of course makes me sound rather good compared to the volunteer high school student who is still learning how to play hymns or present a prelude or postlude.
But I am not a “star” and I never think of myself as a star. I am a servant, the servant who provides the music and helps the people to sing. I am no better or more important than the housekeeper who vacuums and dusts the nave. I think that if you ask, you will find that many Mass musicians and other church musicians have the same attitude that I have–they are servants, not “stars,” even if they play/sing as well as a typical “star.”
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